- REC911 on Unnecessary Spiritual Hierarchies: Leaders Receiving the Sacrament First: “the sacrament is a ritual that we put way too much emphasis on in how it is performed and not enough emphasis on how we should renew our commitment to follow/act like the Savior. It is for us to recommit ourselves and try again. I think all our temple ordinances are the same way. The leaders talk endlessly on getting them and rarely on what we should do after getting them. Same with reading the BoM. I have been asked by leaders, top down, to read that book every day but never challenged to live its principles. We have turned into an org that worships the ordinance and not using the ordinance to become better. Doing the ordinance is just part of what needs done. Becoming a new person, born again, Christ like, is the ultimate goal we just dont focus on as a church. Get them baptized, get them endowed, get them sealed. Done. Next.” Jul 23, 22:39
- on Unnecessary Spiritual Hierarchies: Leaders Receiving the Sacrament First: “Jonathan, you are talking about the ideal. Unfortunately, reality frequently fell short. Many singles were denied the sacrament, and some bishops didn’t authorize home sacrament. If I remember correctly, Ardis P. didn’t receive the sacrament for quite a period. Carey, there are numerous and stronger examples of excessive bowing to hierarchy than Bishops being given the sacrament first.” Jul 23, 17:02
- on Unnecessary Spiritual Hierarchies: Leaders Receiving the Sacrament First: “I’ve never thought that having a leader take the sacrament first was honoring his person. Take a close look at the sacrament prayers, especially the line about the Spirit. In 3 Nephi the apostles ate until they were “filled.” Only then did they serve the rest of the congregation. What is the symbolism here? Unfilled apostles can’t distribute light and truth they don’t have. The congregation waits until the apostles are filled. The symbolism IMO teaches the congregation to wait patiently on their leaders. It also places an extraordinary burden on apostles, seventies and bishops… leaders who take the sacrament first.” Jul 23, 14:37
- on Unnecessary Spiritual Hierarchies: Leaders Receiving the Sacrament First: “>>> Honoring a man who has given a major portion of his adult life” These kind of justifications about how or why the Church enacts certain things policies especially when they are connected to (male only) Priesthood should give one pause about why these justifications are thought of. Whether they were part of the motivations that this policy was enacted may be beside the point because clearly this is a bi-product of this policy. The sacrament should not to be used as an opportunity to praise leaders (especially when this only applies to men) who are called to serve. We need to be vigilant in avoiding setting our “hearts on the things of the world, and the honors of men”. This is pretty well established in our doctrine (See D&C 121).” Jul 23, 11:14
- on Unnecessary Spiritual Hierarchies: Leaders Receiving the Sacrament First: “During the pandemic when meetings were canceled, households with worthy priesthood holders were authorized to bless the sacrament. Households without a priesthood holder had to rely on ministering brothers for the sacrament.” Jul 23, 10:54
- on Unnecessary Spiritual Hierarchies: Leaders Receiving the Sacrament First: “When I was a deacon (1956) I was told that the Bishop, being the presiding person, approved that the Sacramental prayer was said perfectly. If he approved, he would partake and so would then be distributed to the congregation. That made perfect sense to me. He was simply saying “This has been done properly” and so the deacons would then distribute it to the congregation. One other thing that bothers me more is the requirement that a member of the Stake presidency MUST sit on the stand whether he was in official business or with his family in his home ward. I felt it unfair that he NEVER got to sit with his family when he attended church. (I don’t know if this is a local {Edmonton, Alberta} requirement or if it is a church-wide requirement.)” Jul 23, 09:36
- on Unnecessary Spiritual Hierarchies: Leaders Receiving the Sacrament First: “Of all the Church’s spiritual hierarchies, this is one of least significant. Honoring a man who has given a major portion of his adult life to serve (babysit) 300 people doesn’t seem like a serious issue. I agree with Jonathan. The bigger issue is the Sacrament ordinance itself. When I was young (think prehistoric times), the sacrament was administered twice each Sunday. With the 3-hour and 2-hour block innovations, it is administered once. During Covid, it wasn’t administered at all. And many attempts at home administration were squashed by leadership. How important is the standardized rite? Do we need it to take upon us the name of Christ and to agree to keep his commandments (ie. love thy neighbor)? The Sacrament is not a saving ordinance. And its importance has been seriously devalued. And at its heart, it is barbaric. One indication of the Church’s possible renewed emphasis on the Sacrament is the new design of the chapel. Moving the Sacrament table (altar) to center, just below the dais. Or maybe this move is to further prove we are Christian.” Jul 23, 09:20
- on Unnecessary Spiritual Hierarchies: Leaders Receiving the Sacrament First: “I don’t think the 3 Nephi model establishes our modern practice. Jesus didn’t give the bread to the twelve first because they were presiding — He was presiding! Remember, He gave the bread to the twelve and they ate, and afterwards the twelve gave to the multitude. If we follow the 3 Nephi model as precedent, using deacons as distributors, wouldn’t the deacons partake first, and then they would distribute to the multitude? But generally, in our practice, the deacons partake last or near last. I am okay with our modern practice of the presiding official partaking first, but we cannot say we do that because of the 3 Nephi model.” Jul 23, 06:25
- on Unnecessary Spiritual Hierarchies: Leaders Receiving the Sacrament First: “by that i mean that anciently, He didn’t give bread and wine (or loaves and fishes) personally to everyone. He asked those with His authority to do it. that’s how He rolls.” Jul 23, 01:55
- on Unnecessary Spiritual Hierarchies: Leaders Receiving the Sacrament First: “i actually disagree on this one. scriptural patterns show Jesus administering the sacrament first to His 12, and then to others. i’m particularly struck by that pattern in the book of mormon. for me, it’s all about the way HIS power is distributed and is all an invitation to ponder what (or Whom) priesthood holders represent. if the bishop represents God or Christ, wouldn’t we start with serving Him the gift He gave us? and yet He desires us all to receive it AND lets 11-year-old boys have the experience of representing Him in that act…just like He did anciently.” Jul 23, 01:54
