- RLD on Responsibility in our Meetings (Or What Did Church Lead You to Think About Yesterday), 8/9: “In sacrament meeting, a sister who joined the Church a few years ago told us about her spiritual journey, both before and after her baptism. The remarkable thing is that several of her stories directly addressed issues discussed in the ward council meeting just before. That cannot have been a coincidence. Our Elder’s Quorum lesson went badly off the rails and we ended up discussing the Book of Joshua and the other times the Old Testament has God commanding large-scale violence. (This was clearly not what the instructor had intended but, honestly, he should have known the material he brought in was going to take us there.) I eventually brought up that many biblical scholars and archeologists doubt the violence described in Joshua ever happened, and it wouldn’t affect my testimony if it didn’t–Stephen F would have been proud. I got no pushback. I was surprised and amused that the missionaries were eager to talk about it afterward, and brought up the theory that the Deuteronomists had warped the Old Testament histories. My ward is definitely not representative of the Church as a whole, but in it there’s room both for people who take the Old Testament as accurate history and those who don’t, and we get along just fine.” Aug 14, 01:20
- on Faith Is a Hope, by Alma the Younger (Alma 32): “The opposite of following Alma’s counsel isn’t going to the synagogue too often, it’s doing what the Zoramites were doing: going to the synagogue on the Sabbath and then ignoring their religion for the rest of the week. Alma and Amulek teach that the gospel should change everything we are and do, but they also emphasize regular spiritual practices, especially prayer. (Alma 32-34 is one sermon.) They don’t talk about the temple: temple worship would have been very different in Alma’s day, and it’s not clear what role it played in the Nephites’ lives. But modern temple worship seems very much in line with what Alma and Amulek are encouraging us to do.” Aug 14, 01:02
- on Responsibility in our Meetings (Or What Did Church Lead You to Think About Yesterday), 8/9: “ji: “This isn’t my feel for our general church culture…” I must admit that I hear the complaints mostly on the bloggernacle (do we still use that term?) and othe online discussion forums. I have not heard it in GC or from leaders, nor from all members at church. I hope I didn’t give the impression that I thought it was everyone. I think it’s a vocal minority. You also said: “but I also think that our leaders have some responsibility for our church culture” Oh, I agree completely. My ideas are meant to help those who are struggling with church until such time as things improve or they are in a place where they can influence change, I think that the change sought will take a while. We need something to help in the meantime. And we need better and more detailed ideas to persuade leaders of the changes needed.” Aug 13, 19:39
- on Responsibility in our Meetings (Or What Did Church Lead You to Think About Yesterday), 8/9: “jader3rd: I love how that worked out!! We don’t need to be afraid of controversy!” Aug 13, 19:25
- on Responsibility in our Meetings (Or What Did Church Lead You to Think About Yesterday), 8/9: “Not a Cougar: “What do you do with or say to the people who either don’t have the capacity or don’t have the desire…” Well, I don’t want to stereotype anyone into a particular understanding of the world — people do change at least a little. And often that change comes because of outside influences—cultural factors that make it uncomfortable to not change. I suspect that a lot of the reason that some people don’t look for meaning in what happens in life (and therefore in church also) is cultural—we are essentially taught that we don’t need to look further than our surface impressions. You seem to think I have some grand plan worked out for how to spread these ideas beyond what I am doing here. I don’t. I guess I just hope that showing a few people a good idea will let that idea spread. Regardless, I hope by doing this I can help a few people—kind of like the guy who was throwing stranded starfish back into the ocean. When someone pointed out that he couldn’t save all the starfish, he said, as he threw another one into the water, “well, I can save that one.” I think these ideas work and can help at least some people. The process of writing these posts and reading comments has helped me think through these ideas better. Maybe that will lead to something more.” Aug 13, 19:22
- on 19th-21st Century Biology Disciple Scholars : “rogerdhansen is right. Chardin is important. I’m also confused about why you haven’t included any LDS scientists. What is your methodology? If I knew I would suggest my wife, but…” Aug 13, 18:07
- on Responsibility in our Meetings (Or What Did Church Lead You to Think About Yesterday), 8/9: ““…whenever I have heard complaints about sacrament meeting talks or teaching in classes, it’s always assumed that the responsibility lies with the leaders or with the person talking. The audience doesn’t have any responsibility…” This isn’t my feel for our general church culture. My feel has been that it is assumed that the member is a lazy learner, a casual disciple, a sinner, or such as that, and I have heard words in conference to this effect. It seems to me that, in our culture, it is so easy to always blame the members for any failure or imperfect outcome and to always exonerate and extol the leaders. “…I like the statement that President Hugh B. Brown made in a 1969 BYU devotional, President Hugh B. Brown declared that the Church is ‘not so much concerned with whether your thoughts are orthodox or heterodox as we are that you shall have thoughts’…” I also like that statement and I agree with Pres. Brown’s sentiment, but I don’t think his sentiment has prevailed in our church culture. Rather, I think other sentiments have prevailed, such as those espoused by who some might call hard-liners among the brethren both current and previous. Maybe your reminder of Pres. Brown’s sentiment will be helpful in moderating our church culture? I agree that there must be some personal responsibility among the members for personal growth, but I also think that our leaders have some responsibility for our church culture. An environment such as Elder Corbridge described a while back, where Darth Vader is one’s bishop and the culture feels like Alcatraz, will impede personal growth in every member. Such attitudes blame the members and excuse (or extol and exonerate) the leaders. All that said, I have enjoyed this series of postings.” Aug 13, 15:39
- on 19th-21st Century Biology Disciple Scholars : “You omitted Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, Jesuit priest, scientist, paleontologist, mystic, and deep thinker. Interested in the interplay between religion and evolution. Believed that Genesis is allegorical.” Aug 13, 13:31
- on Faith Is a Hope, by Alma the Younger (Alma 32): “Hi, Not a Cougar, Great question. I think that even though temple attendance encouragement is stronger than ever, so is home-centered study and worship. And we are still, of course, encouraged to go to church each week where we covenant to “always remember Him” (not just while at church or in the temple). As Latter-day Saints, I think it is helpful to look at our sacred spaces (temple, church, home, other) and realize we connect with the Divine differently in each. There are things we do in the temple that we cannot do on a nature walk, but there are divine promptings we may feel while ministering to a neighbor that we don’t get sitting in church. Different places can serve different roles for us spiritually.” Aug 13, 11:55
- on Responsibility in our Meetings (Or What Did Church Lead You to Think About Yesterday), 8/9: “jader3rd, I substituted in youth Sunday School, and I shared that neither Ezra nor Nehemiah were prophets; rather, they were political appointees — and that their books contain no prophecy, only history. I also pointed out that the forced divorces were driven by Ezra as a man, not by God — indeed, Malachi the prophet lived during this period and he opposed the divorces.” Aug 13, 11:35
