- DaveW on Unnecessary Spiritual Hierarchies: Leaders Receiving the Sacrament First: “My first Sunday as a deacon we had the bishopric on the stand, and the stake president, and one of his counselors, and a high councilor, and some other guy. Being a less-ignorant-than-typical deacon, I knew who the stake president was and that he out ranked the bishop. But when I tried to give him the bread, he pointed to his right, toward the bishop. So I went two seats to the right to the bishop, who pointed to his left. I was, at this point, thoroughly confused, but obviously they wanted me to give the bread to the ‘other guy’ who was sitting between them. Turns out the other guy was from the first quorum of the 70. I’m sure they announced his presence at the start of the meeting, but no 12 year-old pays attention to stuff like that. Taking the sacrament with the right hand has been in and out of the handbook multiple times. Its a prime example of how the handbook documents both hard doctrine, and arbitrary protocols, and that we have no way of distinguishing between the two.” Jul 22, 10:39
- on A Review: After Happiness: Living with Faith in a Time of Crisis: “Perhaps it’s just me, but I also think that some of the *messaging* surrounding the Proclamation has no explicit support in the document itself – such as that women should not get further education or job skills. I would argue (and I think this is a common belief, but for the ultra-conservatives who are often the die-hards in the wards who try to drive culture a certain way) that gaining specialized education and/or training becomes more and more important for women as time passes as a safeguard for her own well-being and safety, let alone for the light and knowledge she can pass on.” Jul 22, 10:17
- on Unnecessary Spiritual Hierarchies: Leaders Receiving the Sacrament First: “AMEN on this. With changing cultural mores, this sends a jarring signal to anyone paying attention IMHO” Jul 22, 09:59
- on Unnecessary Spiritual Hierarchies: Leaders Receiving the Sacrament First: “IMO this is where that tradition came from… Up until the spanish flu outbreak (1918 i think?) the bishop at that point in all wards was the one and only person that blessed the sacrament. In doing so, he took it first just like the Catholic priest do today. Our sacrament looked very much like a Catholic version with members coming up to the bishop to drink out of the same cup. Not sure if the bishop put the bread in the mouth or hand for the members back then. We started to pass the sacrament because of the spanish flu outbreak. Since the bishop blessed and took the sacrament first up until this point, him being first stuck. Typical tradition turned doctrine that we tend to do a lot in the church. Like the tradition that the sacrament should be taken with the right hand. It is back in the handbook.” Jul 22, 08:47
- on Unnecessary Spiritual Hierarchies: Leaders Receiving the Sacrament First: “The proposed iconoclasm sound fine by me, but isn’t the stake president’s counselor or whoever sitting near the bishop, and the bishop just quietly motions the deacon approaching him to instead give that other man first offering of the bread and water? One thing I enjoy about visiting other wards is the variety of arrangements the priests and deacons have for conducting the ordinance, keeping it an ordinance and not a ceremony. “aren’t going to help the kind of members who reactively disregard or attack leaders” Well, good luck with that.” Jul 22, 08:33
- on Unnecessary Spiritual Hierarchies: Leaders Receiving the Sacrament First: “Thanks for highlighting this, Stephen. It’s definitely unnecessary, yet it persists. Maybe it isn’t a huge thing. But maybe it’s a symptom of a huge thing?” Jul 22, 08:04
- on Unnecessary Spiritual Hierarchies: Leaders Receiving the Sacrament First: “” Church leader self-esteem is not exactly at risk” – isn’t that where this comes from though? I still have vivid memories of a mission visit from Elder Hugh Pinnock in the late 90s lecturing the missionaries about who gets on the elevator first and in what order at the church office building and it was very much a hierarchy, and this is why we stand when a GA enters the room. The Q12 won’t exit their meetings except in order of seniority. It’s very much baked into the leadership culture.” Jul 22, 07:42
- on A Review: After Happiness: Living with Faith in a Time of Crisis: “Thanks for the review, Chad. Sounds like an important book.” Jul 21, 18:48
- on A Review: After Happiness: Living with Faith in a Time of Crisis: “Chad, I would put it like this: There’s a broad spectrum of income levels and family sizes for which having one parent as the primary nurturer is not a luxury, but an economic necessity – childcare is so expensive that it’s basically impossible to pay for if there are multiple children of the relevant age and income is limited. But, as you say, it also entails paying for little beyond basic necessities for years at a time, which is not much fun. I just think that this experience isn’t that unusual across generations. I think people are generally pretty good about not viewing less-than-ideal situations as moral failings in others, but it’s often harder to extend the same grace to ourselves. Natalie, thanks for engaging with Chad’s review! I wish more of the authors he reviewed would do that.” Jul 21, 18:06
- on A Review: After Happiness: Living with Faith in a Time of Crisis: “Chad, thanks for this lovely review and deep understanding of the challenges faced by LDS Millennials. This book does not attack The Proclamation on the Family. Instead, it talks about how much I regret that more families today cannot make the choice to live the ideal it articulates. I think you’ll be surprised to find that it is also a deeply multi-generational book that turns to my father and the prophets before us as models of how to live in our own times. Hope you enjoy it <3” Jul 21, 17:04
