- John Mansfield on The “Radical” 1948 Hymnal: How We Got Our Solemn Sound: “My mother-in-law, now 85 years old, grew up in a ward where Tracy Cannon was not only a Tabernacle organist but also a ward organist. I learned this when I mentioned one of his hymns to her a couple years ago, and she let me know her fondness for his hymns and playing.” Feb 25, 14:04
- on Will the Community of Christ Die Off?: “As for whether Stephen’s post is appropriate, we can ask if a similar post about our own church would be acceptable. And in fact it is: We have seen both unblinking considerations of church growth (including several from Stephen) and less firmly grounded contributions from the doomsday demographers brigade for decades. If for no other reason, the Community of Christ’s growth is worth discussing seriously because some popular proposals for improving the long-term growth of our own church amount to taking paths already taken by the Community of Christ, which have had no discernible positive effect. Those paths might be correct for other reasons, but there’s no argument for them based on growth.” Feb 25, 07:05
- on Will the Community of Christ Die Off?: “I have so many thoughts about this… Overall I agree with Chad, musing on the theoretical demise of our closest cousins in the Restoration is strange and off-putting. I’ve attended a few CoC congregations in the South and Midwest, and have thoroughly enjoyed myself each time. The congregations do skew older, but I’ve met some wonderful and faithful youth as well who will undoubtedly continue the faith of their fathers. Frankly, I don’t see a world in which the CoC would ever consider closing it’s doors. Denominations like the Temple Lot or Strangites have a much, much smaller membership base, and they aren’t in any danger of shutting down soon. The idea of their membership being very top heavy is focusing on the US, which is less than half of the total membership. If you watch their World Conference (which I would recommend doing, it’s all available on YouTube), the institution is very focused on including the international membership and does everything in English, Spanish, and French. Several of their apostles are non-American (including one of the members of their First Presidency), and like us, their growth is concentrated outside the US in places like Africa. Anecdotally, I recall hearing in an interview with their new president that growth in Europe for the CoC is concentrated amongst young people with graduate degrees. We can revisit this topic in 200-300 years and see how things are going. The CoC has experienced a turbulent past 50 years, including losing several of its most distinct theological positions, and is still around. I expect it will continue to reinvent itself to a degree as their leadership feels inspired. As an aside, the sale of Kirtland and the Nauvoo properties only bought the institutional church a few more years of solvency, they are expected to run through that money by the early to mid 2030’s if memory serves. There’s a great interview on Gospel Tangents with their new President where she discusses the fiscal issues. Individuals can choose where to donate their tithes, to their local congregation or the “head church,” and more and more people are choosing to just donate locally.” Feb 24, 20:53
- on Will the Community of Christ Die Off?: “Two Sundays ago, a multi-month investigator was asked in Elders quorum about what sparked his interest in church. He said that he felt the need to go to a church, so he started attending local congregations. Either they were warehouse/stadium style churches that he didn’t feel a connection to, or the congregation was full of old people ready to die off. Then he came to our ward and saw a church with all generations. He’s been coming for months. He has no problem with church standards and lifestyle, his hangup is if God does have a prophet on the earth today.” Feb 24, 19:02
- on Will the Community of Christ Die Off?: “I wonder about the LA Temple. It’s pretty, but generally empty. Great location. Living in Europe it’s amazing to see all the money during 1870-1910 that got into beautiful cathedrals everywhere just to have war and other things in the West evaporate it’s established purpose. Love being able to pop in and enjoy the beauty, would be cool if we had an equivalent shared space for the community.” Feb 24, 16:41
- on Will the Community of Christ Die Off?: “In a different direction, but similar in concerning nature, I’ve been prone to occasionally wonder what will happen to our temples in areas where the church declines over generations. Would it be better for the building to be shuttered and closed, or to stand as a memorial of faith once held, where visitors will walk through the gardens and throw the halls and say, “this is where they once sat an ate 50-cent mash potatoes and gravy on their lunch break.” Oh wait, the Provo Temple already was torn down…. But will the day come when a temple gets refurbished and dedicated essentially as a visitors center because we can no longer staff it? Wouldn’t having it be a house of peace and sanctuary open to the public be preferable to sitting empty? I hope the day never comes, but imagine several hundred years from now, how a historical preservation society should want to handle such a building. Not so unlike many of the cathedrals across Europe.” Feb 24, 11:49
- on Will the Community of Christ Die Off?: “I don’t know, as long as it’s done in good taste and not with any kind of glee I don’t think any social science of religion speculation should be off the table for discussion. As noted, I feel no sense of triumphalism, there’s absolutely nothing the COJCOLDS would gain by the COC closing up shop, and in nearly all cases the death of a religion leads to less light and truth in the world, but it’s precisely because it’s a weighty matter that it’s worth discussing.” Feb 24, 09:18
- on Will the Community of Christ Die Off?: “While I understand this is meant as a demographic ‘thought experiment,’ I find the tone of both the post and comments deeply unsettling. There is a clinical detachment here that feels less like a conversation between ‘cousins’ and more like an autopsy performed on a living patient. It’s hard not to feel like we are acting as vultures circling a community that is very much alive, filled with people who can hear these remarks. When did our interest in religious studies start to look so much like schoolyard bullying—making disparaging predictions loud enough for the subject to hear? I would hope for more grace and less speculation on the ‘death’ of those we claim to wish the best. If we truly value ‘warm relations,’ perhaps we should consider how this conversation would sound if our Community of Christ friends were sitting at the table with us.” Feb 24, 07:56
- on What Did Church Lead You to Think About Yesterday, 2/22?: “A visiting member of the stake pres taught 2nd hour and basically wants to turn ministering back into HT. Ugh. Having said that, I dont think the church even knows what they really want with ministering… The problem the way I see it is that the majority of members do not want/need someone to minister to them and church leaders have a problem with that. (holding on to the old way) To me, that is a good thing that you have members that need no ministering, things are well with them, they will reach out if it changes. If there are members who want to be ministered to that are not, then there is a problem. Opt in/opt out deal IMO. Vic – love the sarcasm. :) True story: someone stole my wallet while I was playing basketball at mutual with the YM. I was not thrilled about messing with the CC and DL stuff (pre-internet) so I prayed. The answer was really weird. So weird I had to check it out and sure enough there it was, on the roof of a shed in the church parking lot. (took a ladder with me) My $5 gone, but my CC and DL still in it!” Feb 24, 06:44
- on Will the Community of Christ Die Off?: “The Kirtland and other heritage places sale was interesting to me in that the real purpose was survival and through the transaction the Church with a debatable 200 billion endowment helped another Church set up a 200 million endowment. Corporations have lives beyond a human lifespan. The LDS Church is continually set on expansion and probably needs 50-100% more to no longer have donations be essential to sustained current aggressive expansion. For the COC a 2-3.5% draw helps them keep the lights on. They are very open with their finances and their donation base is limited-Aging and growth would be most likely through the poor with a structure not incentivized for donating. They will survive but their structure doesn’t set them up to grow. I’d argue the 200 million infusion saved their group from extinction and don’t see them wasting their last chance. Come what may in the LDS Church we’ve set up an institution that will survive fiscally. We have hope in international growth but at the same time in the US are graying and not reproducing enough. We build all our temples and have pathways available for all and will keep expanding Annual giving. We’re not as threatened by fragmentation as our COC siblings, but we have gone through a dose of WASP type disaffection. We’re changing too, with a drawback in time commitment required in our Church community, We are moving to be more mainstream Christian in name and adding more of the liturgical calendar. Are we on a decentralization and transformation pathway already/next?” Feb 24, 06:36
