- Jack on The Heavenly Lawsuit: Dan McClellan on the Original Meaning of Psalm 82: “Michael Heiser claims that the elohim in Psalm 82 are the “sons of God.” And I think it’s interesting that when we read how that psalm is quoted in John 10 the element that causes one to be divine is the reception of the word. Now there’s a lot that could be said about what that might mean–even so, I think the long and short of it is–there is a way in which mortal beings may become “divinized.” And that’s by becoming sanctified and then being admitted into the divine council–as was Isaiah. There’s been no shortage of crazy ideas about who the sons of God were in early writings. The writings of Enoch portray them as fallen angels–you know the story. Even so, I’m of the opinion that what has caused so much confusion about their identity is a hermeneutical problem more than anything else. And it is the restoration scriptures that help us to understand how to interpret references to the “sons of God.”” Jun 28, 22:32
- on The Heavenly Lawsuit: Dan McClellan on the Original Meaning of Psalm 82: “Certainly Paul was quoting Isaiah. But in Isaiah the quote is part of a laundry list of good things that the Lord will do for his people, and the meaning is unclear. Paul uses it as part of a discourse on the resurrection, where the image of a god of death who swallows up everything being swallowed up by Christ’s victory is directly relevant. It’s possible that he was just quoting Isaiah without having any idea what Isaiah was referring to. Or maybe he was familiar with the image of death swallowing things without knowing its origin. But the relevance of the reference makes me think it’s more likely he understood it–chronologically he was a lot closer to actual worshippers of Mot than to us. That’s not to say he believed Mot actually existed, but it was part of his cultural vocabulary the way Greek and Roman gods are part of ours. Even if it was just a quote, I find it fascinating that Canaanite religion shows up in the New Testament at all.” Jun 28, 22:01
- on The Heavenly Lawsuit: Dan McClellan on the Original Meaning of Psalm 82: “RLD, are you suggesting Paul was knowingly drawing on Canaanite religion in writing his epistle or was he simply quoting Isaiah? Those are two very different things, and I think the latter is far, far more likely than the former. And if it’s the latter, why should Paul get any credit for unknowingly and thus unintentionally making a reference to Canaanite religion?” Jun 28, 10:30
- on The Heavenly Lawsuit: Dan McClellan on the Original Meaning of Psalm 82: “Alex Arnold on his channel, Moroni’s Standard, provides a masterful weaving of Psalm 82, the Divine Council, and First Temple theology.” Jun 27, 21:35
- on The Heavenly Lawsuit: Dan McClellan on the Original Meaning of Psalm 82: “I meant to give an example: the Canaanite god of death, Mot, is described as having an insatiable appetite. Death swallows up everything. So when Paul, following Isaiah, says that thanks to Christ, “Death is swallowed up in victory,” he’s drawing on and subverting imagery from Canaanite religion.” Jun 27, 16:27
- on The Heavenly Lawsuit: Dan McClellan on the Original Meaning of Psalm 82: “Stephen, to your point about El and Yaweh, I guess so, kinda, sorta, not really? If we were to “Venn diagram” your connection, we have two ovals with one representing our understanding of God the Father and Jesus Christ and the other is the general consensus of historians on El amd Yaweh. The overlap is a few square inches where we have a father-son deity relationship and in the remaining area of the El-Yahweh oval you could park a couple of metaphorical 747s’ worth of historical odds and ends like, for example, “the rest of the heavenly council,” an a historical Exodus, and the monolatry of Israel for Yahweh being a late development in the kingdom of Judah rather than a foundational characteristic of a the predecessor united Kingdom under David.” Jun 27, 16:24
- on The Heavenly Lawsuit: Dan McClellan on the Original Meaning of Psalm 82: “There’s no doubt that Canaanite religion had a big impact on early Israelite religion, just as Neoplatonic philosophy had a big impact on early Christianity. Many scholars, including some people of faith, see Israelite religion as an outgrowth of Canaanite religion. Those of faith might describe it as a gradual revelation of God, moving from local to universal, judgmental to loving, etc. We would see Canaanite influence as corrupting truth that had been previously received by revelation. Dr. McClellan’s read on Psalm 82 could fit either model, so I have no idea where he stands. (No, not all the psalms are from the time of David and Solomon. See Psalm 137, for instance.) Mix the true gospel with Neoplatonism, and Jehovah becomes a god without body, parts, and passions. Mix the true gospel with Canaanite religion, and Jehovah becomes one of the seventy sons of El and Asherah, each with their own land and people, meeting together in a council. What makes things interesting is that. while in their zeal to reject Canaanite gods the Israelites declared that Jehovah is the only God, we believe that Jehovah does indeed have a divine Father, most of us believe he has a divine Mother, and we believe that he did meet in a divine council at least once. So Canaanite religion preserved some truths that were later lost, perhaps because it was an even more corrupted version of the original true gospel. The Israelites threw out the baby with the bathwater. The really provocative question is whether we can identify our Heavenly Mother with Asherah, and whether at least some of the ancient Israelite worship of Asherah had divine approval. I’ll answer that with a definitive “I don’t know.”” Jun 27, 16:17
- on The Chinese Communist Party, The Dalai Lama, The Church, and Live-and-Let-Live: “The last time the Dalai Lama was in SLC, Church leaders P3 decided not to meet with him. About the same time, they welcomed Trump (who was accompanied by Hatch). The irony here is that while refusing to meet with a global proponent of Freedom of Religion, the P3 agreed to meet with a pol whose personal words and actions are disgusting. Not a pretty picture. How about freedom of religion for the Tibetans and Uyghurs?” Jun 27, 16:12
- on The Heavenly Lawsuit: Dan McClellan on the Original Meaning of Psalm 82: ““Ye are Gods” is an excellent example of “proof texting.” It’s something that is done all too often in the Church.” Jun 27, 15:46
- on “Offer Your Whole Souls” (Gold from the Plates: Greatest Hits Sermons from the Book of Mormon): “Your OP got me to read the Book of Omni — yes the whole book! — again. And I wondered at the fact that there seemed to be so much logistical information written into the small plates by Amulek. But when I read your OP more carefully (a 2nd time) the connection you make between those events and Amulek’s teachings really jumped out at me. Good stuff.” Jun 27, 13:55
