- Jonathan Green on Academics and Church growth: a demographic just-so story: “Stephen and Coffinberry, I agree. There’s a lot of nuance and variation that depends on what particular disciplines have done over the last several decades. (I do have positive feelings about Nebraska ag programs these days though, since our current bishop is a graduate.)” Sep 10, 15:12
- on Kingdoms of Glory and Astronomical Apparent Magnitude: “Why would you think that the metaphorical language of D&C 76 could be reduced to mere mathematics? While I get that the language there is making a comparison of luminosity and glory, I don’t think they are the same thing at all. Instead, luminosity is a symbol for glory. As happens way too often, this logic is substituting the “finger pointing at the moon” for the moon itself.” Sep 10, 14:58
- on Constructing in our Meetings (Or What Did Church Lead You to Think About Yesterday), 9/6: “rogerdhansen: I’m sorry these issues are so hard for you. But have you considered what are the other implications of your solutions? You might send a message, but you also won’t get anything from whatever interactions and discussions happen after SM. And, FWIW, I’m not at all certain that your message will get through in either case. In addition, I can’t help but observe that your reactions make it seem like what should happen in Church is supposed to be what will benefit you. Is that really what Church is about? Old Man: Why think critically about what happens at church? RLD said it — we can control how we react, and what we do to make things better. Several months ago, I referenced Viktor Frankl’s book “Man’s Search for Meaning” — did you read about that? He experienced the ultimate in having zero control, and that book suggests how to be happy in such circumstances. Don’t you think that approach is relevant?” Sep 10, 14:48
- on Academics and Church growth: a demographic just-so story: “In doing family history research I had opportunity to closely study the records of the the Northern States Mission, which at the time included much of the Midwest (Iowa, Illinois, Nebraska, etc.). My interest was southeast Iowa, but because I now live in Lincoln, NE I was also watching reports from that area as well. I observed that a huge factor in the LDS diaspora that created new units in this area during the 1950s and 1960s was the Agriculture programs (either folks coming out of Utah State or Arizona State, or coming to the big Ag schools in Iowa, Illinois, and Nebraska). So many leaders of little branches came out here as Ag teachers or Ag Specialists (lots of USDA types). For lots of reasons, that pipeline is quite dead, but it built a lot of buildings (including the one I currently attend church in). So, all this to say that I agree with you, just adding that Ag is perhaps an invisible aspect of the once formidable pipeline.” Sep 10, 14:29
- on Academics and Church growth: a demographic just-so story: “I think a lot of this hinges on the discipline. I’ve never seen an up-and-coming math professor fit this mold (although I’m sure some do). In fact, a current UC-Berkeley statistics professor was one of the very few in my East Coast graduate student-heavy ward who did his home teaching (and by all accounts he’s still the kind who does his home teaching). But yes, I take your broader point, although some of this runs parallel to the decline in academic jobs more generally from the perfect storm they’re experiencing. Yes, wokeism and explicitly allying themselves with the political losing team is a part of it (although I do feel like that’s peaked somewhat), but some of it is just plain demographics, and now when things were already trepidatious some if not most disciplines are facing an existential storm from AI. Many of us grew up with the idea of academia being a solid career choice with security, but given the job market bloodbath of the past decade or two it’s really hard to see somebody suggesting it in informed good faith. So anyway, all that is to say that the proverbial academic member pipeline drying up might be collinear with the academic pipelines in general drying up, although it is true that for some disciplines the Overton window of acceptable social views does not overlap with orthodox Mormonism like it may have in the past.” Sep 10, 07:12
- on Kingdoms of Glory and Astronomical Apparent Magnitude: “Remember when Alma tells the story of his three days of suffering while unconscious after which he remembered his sins no more? Well, he obviously remembered them or he couldn’t have told the story. But the suffering was entirely over and he was not haunted by it. I read “surpasses all understanding” in a similar manner. I interpret it as being better than anything we have ever experienced or that has historically been experienced. But it is technically understandable–mostly we just don’t understand how to achieve it. In my opinion, every description of the celestial kingdom that has ever been given (streets paved with gold and such) is actually telestial. The nature of the terrestrial and celestial kingdoms, however, are truly beyond our understanding.” Sep 10, 07:03
- on Constructing in our Meetings (Or What Did Church Lead You to Think About Yesterday), 9/6: “@Old Man: What we control at church is ourselves. The whole point of this series is to highlight how our actions and attitudes as audience members can have a big impact on our experience at church, regardless of the real or imagined failings of our speakers, teachers, and leaders. On the other hand, most of us are speakers and teachers pretty regularly, and sometimes local leaders, so those roles are relevant too. One thing none of us control is the new schedule, and I completely agree that complaining about it is off-topic for this post and generally unproductive. I occasionally teach “flipped format” workshops. Instead of me presenting the material and the students going home to do exercises, they read the material at home and then we get together to discuss, answer questions, and go through exercises. Of course, if the students haven’t read the material they don’t get much out of the time we spend together. (My workshops are voluntary and ungraded, so there’s a reason I don’t usually teach in flipped format.) Our study of the scriptures always needed to be flipped format to accomplish its goals; “Home Centered, Church Supported” just recognized that fact. Kent, you now have me thinking about how our lessons should be more like a flipped-format workshop–thanks.” Sep 9, 15:51
- on Seeing Responsibility in our Meetings (Or What Did Church Lead You to Think About Yesterday), 8/30: “Either that….or one simply comes to realize that the messaging has become so rote and pablum – like; that it’s just not worth the struggle any longer. Sing a congregational Hymn….take the Sacrament….and then get the heck outta there.” Sep 9, 15:34
- on Kingdoms of Glory and Astronomical Apparent Magnitude: “I have actually heard this stellar magnitude analogy used before, so it is cool to hear it again. In response to Lily’s question, perhaps we can divide terrestrial and telestial planets in to class T-temporal and E-Eternal. We are living on a class Telestial-T world, and presumably other habitable planets we can observe with life may also be in this class. After the judgement, the Telestial worlds there are far surpassing these ones and are now Telestial-E. Similarly, when this planet is Terrestrialized in the Millenium, it may become a Terrestrial-T, wheras those in the Terrestrial kingdom will have planets far surpassing the Millenium as Terrestrial-E. Another question I have is degrees within the kingdoms, for example, the brightest star in the sky, Sirius, with a stellar apparent mag of -1.46, is over 4000 times brighter than the dimmest star visible to the naked eye in ideal dark sky conditions. So already we could have tremendous variation within the Telestial. Another question is how much greater the floor of the Telestial kingdom is than the ideal conditions here. Is it 1.3 times better? 12? 60?” Sep 9, 10:22
