- JB on The Church Doesn’t Need Your Panic: A Response to Jonathan Green: “Piggybacking off RLD’s comment: I teach at a junior college near a major metropolitan area. My students include Mexicans and Latinos generally who have been slandered as rapists and criminals by a man who is himself a confirmed rapist and a convicted felon. All of these students’ families are currently being terrorized by an out-of-control ICE that is verifiably and objectively beating, torturing, and murdering people without regards to their immigration status or criminal record, including legal U.S. citizens and residents, in clear violation of due process. My Bishop is currently covering the rents of multiple Latino members in our ward who have been forced to drastically cut back their hours at work as a direct result of the current administration’s anti-immigration actions. The government very much affects their lives, and it is incredibly selfish, ignorant, irresponsible, and myopic (to use Russel M. Nelson’s word) to talk otherwise. My students also include Haitians who who have received continued death threats after the current VP spread blatant lies about them eating people’s pets, Muslims who have been libeled as terrorists by a man who instigated a terrorist attack on the capitol on 1/6/21, refugees who now live in constant fear of being deported back to the war-torn genocidal countries they only recently escaped even if they keep a clean record, Ukrainians who have seen their relatives in the old country suffer enormously from cuts in military support during the ongoing Russian invasion, veterans whom he has called suckers and losers, sexual assault survivors who point to his election as a leading reason why they don’t bother reporting their rapes to authorities, people of color working multiple jobs to survive who keep being told DEI stands for “Didn’t Earn It” by a failed casino owner who inherited all his wealth from his slumlord father, and low-income students generally who just saw their health insurance premiums skyrocket as a direct result of his policies while he golfs on his private resort each weekend. Again, if this man’s governmental policies don’t affect you personally, great, I’m happy for you, but maybe try and spare a thought for literally everyone who is not you. Similar to the narrator and Anon, I have frankly grown tired of coddling Trump supporters’ feelings. They have been immune to all appeals to compassion, logic, kindness, and basic human decency for over a solid decade now. Whenever they write rebuttals like this, it’s not to try and reach out to their opponents and come to a common understanding, but because they simply don’t want to be called out for causing immense suffering in others. It hurts their feelings. Consider this: If you don’t want to be called out for constantly hurting others, then stop hurting others.” Jan 22, 18:13
- on The Church Doesn’t Need Your Panic: A Response to Jonathan Green: “I can only give a few of my own assumptions and priors. They are not necessarily typical, so to get a good view you should read other sources. To start, I believe in limited, representative government. The whole idea of an “independent agency” seems constitutionally dubious; in practice it seems to mean an unaccountable agency that can do what it wants without many checks or balances or consequences when it goes off the rails. Long before Trump got on that elevator and announced his candidacy, I had decided that the federal government was increasingly bloated, sclerotic, and unresponsive to the real needs of the country. I also got the impression that many voters were getting increasingly frustrated and angry that they kept voting for change, but even when the people they voted for won elections nothing changed. Trump was not my choice for the person to lead the dismantlement of the “administrative state”—I didn’t vote for him in 2016—but that dismantlement needs to happen, well, is going to happen one way or another because it’s reached an unsustainable size, and the longer we put it off the more painful it will be. I do feel sorry for the people who are losing their jobs because of it, but that’s preferable to them losing their heads a few years down the road, which is where I was afraid we were heading. I hope that gives you a little insight. Again, I’m a rather reluctant supporter at best, so if you want to engage more people you should investigate more widely. My impression is that there is much more diversity of thought on the pro-Trump side than on the anti-Trump side. If there is one thing that Trump supporters agree on, though, it’s that the system is broken and needs drastic change.” Jan 22, 15:55
- on The Church Doesn’t Need Your Panic: A Response to Jonathan Green: “Curtis Pew, So what are the assumptions and priors of Trump supporters?” Jan 22, 14:18
- on The Church Doesn’t Need Your Panic: A Response to Jonathan Green: “Here’s a thought about where you might start if you’re sincere about persuading someone who supports Trump that they shouldn’t. To begin, “reason” is highly dependent on assumptions and priors. Have you taken the time to try to understand the assumptions and priors of Trump supporters? For that matter, have you clearly set out and identified your own? To be honest, I haven’t seen a lot of what I would call reasoning in the arguments here. I would characterize the discussion as mostly assertions that the administration’s actions can only be interpreted through a particular perspective, with the implicit idea that only people who are stupid or evil or both could have a different perspective. That really comes off as arrogant and condescending, which is not very effective for persuasion.” Jan 22, 13:52
- on The Church Doesn’t Need Your Panic: A Response to Jonathan Green: ““Unless a person lets it through their own hysteria or misdeeds, the government doesn’t affect much of your life.” Yeah, that stood out to me too. On its face, it’s obviously untrue. Our entire lives are heavily affected by, for example, the security offered by our military and police. I greatly appreciate that. What I think the author meant was that we’re not affected by the actions of the Trump administration. If that’s true for you, I’m glad. It’s not true for me and people I care about. I work for a university in a research computing group. (Maybe that’s a misdeed?) Because the Trump administration seized the power of the purse from Congress and broke what are supposed to be binding contracts, we had to lay off an employee who I’m afraid will have a hard time finding another job. The future of my job now depends on the outcomes of various court cases, and that’s also true for my bishop and many members of my ward and stake. (“But Trump won the election!” Yes, he did–for President, not dictator. The founders designed the Constitution to limit the amount of damage any one leader can do. If the people of the United States no longer want a viable research sector, they should elect a majority in Congress that supports that agenda. They didn’t.) A recent graduate I know well wanted to be an airline pilot. Trump’s FAA blocked her because she’s trans–there was no attempt to claim it had anything to do with her ability to fly a plane. Maybe it’s “hysteria” to care about people I don’t know personally, but Trump’s quest for “retribution” continues to affect people who committed no misdeeds. To cite a couple of examples the author may have sympathy for, FBI agents and US attorneys have been fired for having been assigned to the wrong case. Trump is promising to prosecute election officials for properly administering the 2020 election and accurately reporting its results. Trump is trying to blacklist some people who worked for the previous administration, punishing firms who hire them. The list could go on and on. I hope the author continues not to be harmed by the Trump administration. But I hope he cares enough about the people who are being harmed–or about principles of basic fairness–to object to what’s happening in our country today.” Jan 22, 13:44
- on The Church Doesn’t Need Your Panic: A Response to Jonathan Green: “This response to Jonathon’s work is inadequate in many ways. 1. It fails to disprove the Trump administration’s drift towards authoritarianism. 2. It fails to engage with the fears of the moderates and the left on their own terms. “My life is fine under this government.” Well, bully for the author. Plenty of people have been just fine under authoritarian regimes past and present. 3. It collapses completely in persuading anyone outside of those politically aligned with the author. The over-the-top sarcasm and dismissal of Jonathon’s perspective is misplaced.” Jan 22, 12:52
- on The Church Doesn’t Need Your Panic: A Response to Jonathan Green: ““We should mind our own business and let the government do what it needs to do.” Scott B., we’re a republic with democratically elected leaders. What do you mean “mind our own business? It’s absolutely everyone’s business.” Jan 22, 12:15
- on The Church Doesn’t Need Your Panic: A Response to Jonathan Green: ““Unless a person lets it through their own hysteria or misdeeds, the government doesn’t affect much of your life.“ I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. We should mind our own business and let the government do what it needs to do.” Jan 22, 11:12
- on The Church Doesn’t Need Your Panic: A Response to Jonathan Green: “Curtis, What is the right way to change the opinion of a Trump supporter? Reason and appeals to basic morality have utterly failed. Playing nice has done nothing. Please inform us.” Jan 22, 11:04
- on The Church Doesn’t Need Your Panic: A Response to Jonathan Green: “Thank you, Bro. Deane. You said it better than I could. I will just add, to Bro. Green and those on his side, if you’re serious about trying to change the opinions of Trump supporters and are not just congratulating yourselves on your own righteousness, that you’re going about it the wrong way.” Jan 22, 10:57
