- jader3rd on Did People Have More Children to Work the Farm?: “One thing I learned from the most recent Freakonomics episode was that 16th century England and France were having the exact same arguments. https://freakonomics.com/podcast/why-arent-we-having-more-babies/ There would be a generation of handwringing over too many mouths to feed, to the next generation of the population is dropping and we can’t support an army should we be invaded, we need more babies.” Jun 15, 23:06
- on Did People Have More Children to Work the Farm?: “Good point Dave K, the fact that parents live longer (e.g. https://jech.bmj.com/content/71/5/424 ) is another important point with honoring your parents that your days may be long. That connection had never occurred to me before. “The calorie production charts of today’s industrialized society I expect are completely different from the historical ones.” Of course, we could “produce” thousands upon thousands of calories if we wanted. Although it is intriguing to me that the amount of education that is required to be a proficient hunter actually tracks quite well with how long we keep adolescents in high school. “Simply put, due to advances in healthcare, infant mortality, and contraception, women can provide a replenishment level of children on their own and support their caloric needs and those of their children without any support from a man.” Agreed, although our 21st century lifestyle requires more than the wooden shack and the few handfuls of rice/loafs of bread that our ancestors had. But yes, fatherhood is obviously a lot more than just providing calories.” Jun 15, 20:52
- on “As a Young Lion among the Flocks of Sheep”: “Perhaps they aren’t linked but our scriptural footnotes links that remnant to the 3 Nephi verses I quote. Regardless, the focus of this post are those 3 Nephi verses. Looks to me like the remnant has gone forth among the Gentiles and are in the midst of them, so it looks like that first part has happen. And it looks like the Gentiles are currently making a lot of them very angry. I’m curious what the future holds.” Jun 15, 14:20
- on “As a Young Lion among the Flocks of Sheep”: “Stephen, Not to belabor a side issue–but I think we’re talking past each other. I don’t see the prophecy about the young lion (in 3rd Nephi) as necessarily aligning with the actions of the “remnants” in Joseph’s prophecy. I could be wrong–but I think they can be interpreted as separate events. John, As prophecies from the Book of Mormon become fulfilled it becomes more difficult–for me at least–to interpret its provenance as purely metaphorical.” Jun 15, 13:55
- on Did People Have More Children to Work the Farm?: “Spencer, thanks for this. I was educated with the presumption that children were a net benefit to run a farm. It’s helpful to see some actual data. I do think one other key benefit exists for adults who have children (in particular men) which the data bears out but isn’t addressed in this post. More children increases the chances for a long life. The data supports the deuteronomic instruction to honor one’s parents that your days may be long. Will you also continue this post to consider the stark differences between today’s technology and society compared to pre-modern circumstances? As important as historic caloric production data are, the data also shows universal drops in birth rates as a result of the expansion of women’s agency via contraception and education. The calorie production charts of today’s industrialized society I expect are completely different from the historical ones. Simply put, due to advances in healthcare, infant mortality, and contraception, women can provide a replenishment level of children on their own and support their caloric needs and those of their children without any support from a man. I believe men can play a crucial role to improve lives of women and children, but that effort goes well beyond providing calories. If men’s roles are limited to those in the proclamation men will ultimately be unnecessary. Thankfully we have the example of a male role model – the savior – whose primary work was to nurture, not provide, protect, or preside. Our hope lies in raising men to do all things good, foremost to nurture.” Jun 15, 12:27
- on “As a Young Lion among the Flocks of Sheep”: “Thanks for the quote, Tom. There’s a long history of Mormons emphasizing or deemphasizing what current scholars tend to call the Native apocalypse. Parley Pratt made a big deal of it in the first edition of his Voice of Warning, but Mormon critics frequently accused the Mormon of planning to unite with the Natives against the whites (BoM sort of sounds like that). So Pratt took it out, and Mormons often deemphasized it. It’s REALLY been deemphasized over the last 100+ years. I’ve never heard it taught in church. I first noticed it on my mission in the mid 90s. I agree RLD that recent events make me see the fulfillment as conceivable. Jack, my reading of the prophecies in 3 Nephi really make it sound like the remnant of Jacob will “win,” thus I don’t see the clashes of the late 1800s as fulfilling the prophecy. John, that’s a big and complicated issue. Naturally, I don’t know for sure what the future holds, but noting that JS’s Civil War prophecy looks pretty accurate causes me to give credence to the Native apocalypse as well.” Jun 15, 08:25
- on Did People Have More Children to Work the Farm?: “It would be interesting to see studies specifically for agricultural societies, since that’s the case usually brought up. But (as you say) this is something that gets repeated so often that I never thought to question it.” Jun 15, 07:56
- on “As a Young Lion among the Flocks of Sheep”: “Very timely reminder Stephen! And definitely one of the passages from the Book of Mormon that very directly bears on the current political climate. However, I have it on good authority that while the Book of Mormon is a staggering work of religious genius, the gold plates didn’t actually exist in the material world. They’re more of a metaphor that Joseph used – perhaps to emphasize the eternally precious nature of the spiritual truths he was teaching. So it’s not a historical record, and thus the Lehites weren’t real people. A beautiful and compelling metaphor, that we could productively anylyze, but not grounded in historical reality. Any “promises” made about them will need to be interpreted allegorically.” Jun 15, 05:34
- on “As a Young Lion among the Flocks of Sheep”: “For what it’s worth, I had been collecting notes on this for more many years before I stopped taking notes on it about a decade ago. I take it as a given that it will happen at some point. I figure it will happen in conjunction with the downfall of all Western Civilization (white, Caucasian, Gentile, European) as the Times of the Gentiles are finally Fulfilled and the rest of the world (Native American, African, Asian) rises in ascendancy and takes its turn on Top of things for awhile. The truth of God, meanwhile, “will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent, till it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished, and the Great Jehovah shall say the work is done.” https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s06QIGXXiEBYG-7Lh8ndnIZ1Fr3dBMrX6QFqaScuT8g/edit?tab=t.0” Jun 14, 20:45
