- Sute on How Many Stakes Worth of Immigrants Are There in the Church in the US?: “Wouldn’t it be crazy if there was a mutually strengthening effect from immigration. It’s almost as if we have books of scripture about various people migrating, being led by the hand of God. Sorry if I trigger any of my fellow conservatives, many of them now firming entrenched statists because #winningtrumpsprinciple And he said unto the servant: Behold, the branches of the wild tree have taken hold of the moisture of the root thereof, that the root thereof hath brought forth much strength; and because of the much strength of the root thereof the wild branches have brought forth tame fruit. Now, if we had not grafted in these branches, the tree thereof would have perished.” Feb 12, 23:53
- on Emma’s Ally: Restoring William Marks to Latter-day Saint History: “David Whitmer also felt that JS was deceived regarding polygamy but it was for the fact that JS did not use the sear stone or interpreters for the revelation. JS said he knew it (sec 132) by memory and dictated it word for word to the scribe at Hyrum’s request. Hyrum did encourage Joseph to use the stone or interpreters to validate the revelation to Emma. Emma was obviously trying to hide the fact that her husband was the founder of polygamy. JS III almost went to his grave believing his mom instead of countless testimonies of members. For sure you could argue the case that JS version and BY version of polygamy were different from each other as Emma pointed out. To make matters more confusing JS was doing the Law of Adoptions as well. (BY continued these too) Emma was a proponent for JSIII to eventually lead the church so if she was for Marks to run it, I think it was only temporary. That was what BY agreed to as well but JSMIII didn’t feel right about replacing BY. He had too many disagreements with BY version of the church. Such a difficult time for the members back them. God, I am sure, will provide the mercy they all deserve for what they went through.” Feb 11, 22:07
- on Emma’s Ally: Restoring William Marks to Latter-day Saint History: “I’m descended from Austin Cowles, who was a counselor to William Marks in the Nauvoo Stake Presidency and who, like Marks, left the church over the issue of polygamy. When Hyrum Smith told the high council (which would have included Cowles and Marks) about polygamy, Cowles was so upset he resigned his position. He wrote an affidavit regarding the church’s teaching regarding polygamy which was published in the Nauvoo Expositor, and he was excommunicated for speaking out against it. Like Marks, he affiliated with various offshoots of the church until finally joining the Reorganized Church.” Feb 11, 20:32
- on First Shall be Last and the Last Shall be First: A Didactic, Overbearing Parable: “John, My husband and I left the church a couple years ago. For me, it was a combo of lots of stuff, mainly historical. Previous to leaving, my teen sons all stopped going to church for various reasons. To your point, my husband mainly stopped going because he saw family as more important and didn’t want it to be a source of contention or a reason for spending less time together as a family. So, it definitely happens. If the church prioritizes family, for some people that might mean less church. At least in our ward with few teens few activities, no friends their ages, church really had no appeal.” Feb 11, 15:54
- on First Shall be Last and the Last Shall be First: A Didactic, Overbearing Parable: “And I’d also like to point out that this overly simplified story says nothing about *Maria’s* children, if she has any – unless her “happily ever after” ending is supposed to imply that none of her children fall away from the Church. But again, to slightly complicate a deliberately oversimplified story: there are *many* Marias in the world whose children, like those of Bill, don’t stay in their childhood faith when they grow up.” Feb 11, 11:25
- on First Shall be Last and the Last Shall be First: A Didactic, Overbearing Parable: “Not to overcomplicate what is explicitly intended to be an overly simplified story, but I’d just like to point out that *somewhere* on the internet there’s bound to be a similar post that calls out someone very similar to Maria for being “edgy” about her childhood faith (whatever it was) that she left, and that praises someone very similar to Bill for jumping ship to Maria’s childhood faith after finding that his own didn’t fit.” Feb 11, 11:15
- on First Shall be Last and the Last Shall be First: A Didactic, Overbearing Parable: “” the other side is a worldly perspective that religion is mostly a tool to teach children morals and comfort old ladies, and has a pretty minor role in the lives of functioning adults. ” Ahhh!!! It drives me nuts when the nuanced, intelligent, smarty pants people take this view. (Not aimed necessarily at the commenter, I realize it was third person rhetoric). Yes, of course the first half is true. So what’s the damn role of these so called functioning adults? How about TEACH CHILDREN AND COMFORT OLD LADIES!! (does that bring a scripture to mind about pure religion?) Don’t these “functioning” adults understand that the work of God continues? The work he invited us to participate in. And just as we allegedly became “functioning” by the previous generations sacrifices, so too must we do the same; not by patting ourselves on the back by getting rid of the thing that fashioned us but by carrying on what we’ve received. Incidentally, what if essentially that’s the same pattern for eternity after we are resurrected (spoiler alert, it is)? “But wait, I need to have more me time,” they say. “If I did that, I’d be living my life for someone else.” To which, Jeff Foxworthy might reply, yes, here’s your temple recommend. Now go and do thou likewise. (And just maybe in giving up your life, you might find it)” Feb 11, 09:10
- on First Shall be Last and the Last Shall be First: A Didactic, Overbearing Parable: “While I stand by earlier comment about straw men, I have to continually remind myself that posts like this one are really about the author’s fear, bias, and inclination to judge others, than they are about real people who think, feel and perceive differently than the author.” Feb 11, 08:51
- on First Shall be Last and the Last Shall be First: A Didactic, Overbearing Parable: “A part of the child/parent dynamic I have wondered about is influences from a couple sides that may lead a parent of non-participating children to also become non-participating. One side is exemplified by the Boyd Packer/David Bednar-type teaching that family is the most important thing in the church, more important than everything else put together, and the other side is a worldly perspective that religion is mostly a tool to teach children morals and comfort old ladies, and has a pretty minor role in the lives of functioning adults. For some, departure of children from gospel-oriented life seems to be dealt with by protectively downplaying the importance of a gospel-oriented life. “I haven’t lost anything that really matters.” That is just one possible way of living with those things, though. Many parents of religiously inactive children are themselves full of faith and devotion. In my own quorum, most faithful men over 50 have at least one child who they wish would come back to gospel participation.” Feb 11, 08:22
- on First Shall be Last and the Last Shall be First: A Didactic, Overbearing Parable: ““If there’s any approach that works consistently I haven’t seen it–agency trumps everything even Heavenly Parents do.” Agree 100%. And yes, the super-conservative-family-whose-kids-crash-once-they-leave-their-insulated-environment is definitely a thing. And also yes, it matters where you draw the line on edginess (I remember the look on my bishop’s face when I mentioned that I listen to Joe Rogan). I guess that’s why I said “self-consciously,” to differentiate between somebody who’s a little heterodox or cut from different cloth from somebody for whom the edginess is a big part of what they want their kids’ religious identities to be.” Feb 11, 08:06
