- ji on Ex-Member Anecdotes and Motivated Memories: “I haven’t read Jeff Strong’s book, but for some reason (maybe a review?) I thought he approached the matter from a faithful perspective. It so, I am glad he gathered the information. I have a few extended family members who have stepped away (loudly or quietly), but really no one in the church hierarchy cares. I wish someone did. Anyway, one may leave the church, but someone who was a brother or niece or neighbor before leaving is still a brother or niece or neighbor after leaving. Regarding cafeteria Mormons, aren’t we all cafeteria Mormons? When invited to a grand buffet banquet (or even a ward potluck), I can nibble here and nibble there, or I suppose I could gorge on one thing in particular, but I likely can’t eat some of everything, and that’s okay. In the old days, I once observed that I was spending hours on Scouting for Aaronic Priesthood youth, while someone else was spending hours on temple work, and while someone else was spending hours on missionary work, and that was okay. As shown in another recent posting, for example, I’m not thrilled with including heavenly mothers in our worship meetings, but I still identify as a faithful Latter-day Saint. So yes, I think we’re all cafeteria members — hopefully, we can all sustain each other like in Paul’s parts-of-the-body expression. Last thought: I agree that Latter-day Saints are affected by broad societal trends.” May 20, 10:18
- on Ex-Member Anecdotes and Motivated Memories: “If you look at his data, the biggest reason people leave is history, not being hurt. That tracks with my experience. But honestly, I think the idea of many things all culminating in leaving is true. Probably members who stay or join the church also have many, many factors combining there. I think casting doubts on people’s stories and experiences is not a useful way to approach them. It is true that memories change over time, but so do everyone’s. A short encapsulation of my story is that as long as I believed, I could put up with all kinds of hurts and offenses, but once I no longer believed, they all combined to bring me out of the church. But the final straw was really church history and doctrine.” May 20, 10:17
- on Ex-Member Anecdotes and Motivated Memories: “I remember the day my parents and I (and my younger siblings, though I doubt they remember) learned about the revelation on priesthood. We had picked up my Dad from work, and on the way home we heard it in the news on the radio. My parents were thrilled, but they had to explain to me why, because I didn’t know Blacks couldn’t hold the priesthood up to that point. (I was seven at the time.) But…for many years, when I replayed that memory in my mind, the scenery I saw through the car window was a specific street in the city where we lived in 1977. Maybe a decade ago, we were reading Official Declaration 2 in a class when I realized that it was given in 1978, and by then we had moved to a different city. I noted it as a lesson on the fallibility of memory. But I can now add a lesson on the malleability of memory: if I replay that memory now, I see a similar street in the city where we lived in 1978. Given the drive, that probably is the street where the event took place, but I doubt my brain dug up a more accurate memory–it just substituted a location in the city where I now realize this happened. Picking my Dad up from work was a fairly common experience in both cities, and it was the same car, so the background of the event is pretty interchangeable. Yes, memory is weird and not entirely trustworthy. It’s a fun family game to compare early memories–there will be surprises.” May 20, 09:25
- on Ex-Member Anecdotes and Motivated Memories: “Just once I would like to encounter a mormon who when confronted with their bad behavior (or writing) stops and says. Hmm, maybe I am wrong. If you care at all about those members who have been hurt you might try it just once.” May 20, 09:06
- on Ex-Member Anecdotes and Motivated Memories: “You know what they say about the plural of anecdote. One issue I see in a lot of the popular research on exit is that it often proposes highly LDS-specific causes for worldwide trends. If the phenomenon you’re describing is just secularization – which it is – then the driving causes at the group level are going to be similar to whatever causes secularization elsewhere in the U.S. and globally. Was there an Episcopalian Kinderhook Plates that was just too much for a bunch of 20th-century Episcopalians? No, there was not. Individual experiences and outcomes certainly vary, but collectively, the list of historical issues for exit is just an acceptable way for people to justify their decision in favor of secularization. I’ve posted before about how we remember our experiences as teenagers or missionaries, and people didn’t take it well. But we really are terrible at it.” May 20, 09:05
- on Ex-Member Anecdotes and Motivated Memories: “Only a superficial reading of the post would draw that conclusion. I specifically said on multiple occasions that these memory issues affect all of us–orthodox or not, stayers and leavers, etc. That doesn’t mean that memory is irrelevant or useless, just that we often need to triangulate different accounts to get at the truth, and that presenting one side is going to skew things.” May 20, 08:53
- on Ex-Member Anecdotes and Motivated Memories: “Fascinating, Your memory of events from decades ago is correct, while his perceptions of the time are wrong. You make a perfect point in your piece about the ephemeral nature of memory but it sits so completely hidden by your blind spots, that you cannot detect it in yourself. As I said, Fascinating.” May 20, 08:50
- on Ex-Member Anecdotes and Motivated Memories: “Funny how most of us had that same bully in our past. I have often wondered what prison or company they ended up in. The reasons why people leave the church has been a personal curiosity for me. All my children, (all adults) my spouse and I, (old people) are still in and my siblings are still in but some of my siblings kids are out. (all adults) As most here know, I am far from being “orthodox” in the church. It works for me. I have never been what I would call orthodox even tho I partook in most of the traditions in the church such as mission, temple marriage, and church service. Lots of reasons out there to leave the church but if members would just live the gospel in a heathy way to them, I think it would help them stay for the stuff they like instead of leaving for the stuff they dont like. Our culture doesn’t like members who don’t do/believe everything the church teaches 100% of the time. We are viewed as “cafeteria members” that are slacking in the faith. Not a fan of that culture. We tend to be an all or nothing religion of overachievers. Slackers are welcome only if you are on the overachieving covenant path at the same speed the “elect” are on. Having said that, nothing wrong with being an orthodox, overachieving 110% kind of member if that works for you. Nothing at all wrong with that. This is what I mean by a “healthy way to them” life in the church. What works for you, not me. Having recently retired, many in the church have asked me straight out “so when are you going on a mission?” Very few ask me IF I will go on a mission. The culture expects me to go. Some of the orthodox well intended members are actually disappointed in me not going. Like I just leaped of the covenant path or something. Some family treats me like that as well. (the orthodox family) There is room in the pews for all of us. IMO.” May 20, 08:20
- on History from the Middle: The Enchanted World of the Man Who Baptized Wilford Woodruff: “Congrats! I love your take on the LDS version of the “Great Man” view of history.” May 19, 13:33
- on History from the Middle: The Enchanted World of the Man Who Baptized Wilford Woodruff: “Thanks, everyone!” May 19, 11:43
