- Sute on Will the Community of Christ Die Off?: “In a different direction, but similar in concerning nature, I’ve been prone to occasionally wonder what will happen to our temples in areas where the church declines over generations. Would it be better for the building to be shuttered and closed, or to stand as a memorial of faith once held, where visitors will walk through the gardens and throw the halls and say, “this is where they once sat an ate 50-cent mash potatoes and gravy on their lunch break.” Oh wait, the Provo Temple already was torn down…. But will the day come when a temple gets refurbished and dedicated essentially as a visitors center because we can no longer staff it? Wouldn’t having it be a house of peace and sanctuary open to the public be preferable to sitting empty? I hope the day never comes, but imagine several hundred years from now, how a historical preservation society should want to handle such a building. Not so unlike many of the cathedrals across Europe.” Feb 24, 11:49
- on Will the Community of Christ Die Off?: “I don’t know, as long as it’s done in good taste and not with any kind of glee I don’t think any social science of religion speculation should be off the table for discussion. As noted, I feel no sense of triumphalism, there’s absolutely nothing the COJCOLDS would gain by the COC closing up shop, and in nearly all cases the death of a religion leads to less light and truth in the world, but it’s precisely because it’s a weighty matter that it’s worth discussing.” Feb 24, 09:18
- on Will the Community of Christ Die Off?: “While I understand this is meant as a demographic ‘thought experiment,’ I find the tone of both the post and comments deeply unsettling. There is a clinical detachment here that feels less like a conversation between ‘cousins’ and more like an autopsy performed on a living patient. It’s hard not to feel like we are acting as vultures circling a community that is very much alive, filled with people who can hear these remarks. When did our interest in religious studies start to look so much like schoolyard bullying—making disparaging predictions loud enough for the subject to hear? I would hope for more grace and less speculation on the ‘death’ of those we claim to wish the best. If we truly value ‘warm relations,’ perhaps we should consider how this conversation would sound if our Community of Christ friends were sitting at the table with us.” Feb 24, 07:56
- on What Did Church Lead You to Think About Yesterday, 2/22?: “A visiting member of the stake pres taught 2nd hour and basically wants to turn ministering back into HT. Ugh. Having said that, I dont think the church even knows what they really want with ministering… The problem the way I see it is that the majority of members do not want/need someone to minister to them and church leaders have a problem with that. (holding on to the old way) To me, that is a good thing that you have members that need no ministering, things are well with them, they will reach out if it changes. If there are members who want to be ministered to that are not, then there is a problem. Opt in/opt out deal IMO. Vic – love the sarcasm. :) True story: someone stole my wallet while I was playing basketball at mutual with the YM. I was not thrilled about messing with the CC and DL stuff (pre-internet) so I prayed. The answer was really weird. So weird I had to check it out and sure enough there it was, on the roof of a shed in the church parking lot. (took a ladder with me) My $5 gone, but my CC and DL still in it!” Feb 24, 06:44
- on Will the Community of Christ Die Off?: “The Kirtland and other heritage places sale was interesting to me in that the real purpose was survival and through the transaction the Church with a debatable 200 billion endowment helped another Church set up a 200 million endowment. Corporations have lives beyond a human lifespan. The LDS Church is continually set on expansion and probably needs 50-100% more to no longer have donations be essential to sustained current aggressive expansion. For the COC a 2-3.5% draw helps them keep the lights on. They are very open with their finances and their donation base is limited-Aging and growth would be most likely through the poor with a structure not incentivized for donating. They will survive but their structure doesn’t set them up to grow. I’d argue the 200 million infusion saved their group from extinction and don’t see them wasting their last chance. Come what may in the LDS Church we’ve set up an institution that will survive fiscally. We have hope in international growth but at the same time in the US are graying and not reproducing enough. We build all our temples and have pathways available for all and will keep expanding Annual giving. We’re not as threatened by fragmentation as our COC siblings, but we have gone through a dose of WASP type disaffection. We’re changing too, with a drawback in time commitment required in our Church community, We are moving to be more mainstream Christian in name and adding more of the liturgical calendar. Are we on a decentralization and transformation pathway already/next?” Feb 24, 06:36
- on Will the Community of Christ Die Off?: “I am not sure if there is anything left for the church to buy from the CoC, but with the $250mil they recently got from us, I think they will just keep rolling along until they need to sell something else. I read their financials before the deal and it was pretty dismal. You could ask the same question about our church as people keep leaving it. Our church has always touted the membership #s but we all know that at least half those #s are just members on record. We also know that typically if there is 300k new converts in a year, maybe 30% ? will be in the pews the following year. IMO if the CoC had the missionary force, they would do well with converts as most of the “hard stuff” we ask converts to do, they do not, but they still have the “restoration and living prophets” story to tell. On another note….can we stop spelling out the long form of the church’s name all the time? I am tired of reading it and hearing it for that matter. (within our church) We only have had one president who had an issue with it so can we bury it with him? All those in favor?” Feb 24, 06:20
- on What Did Church Lead You to Think About Yesterday, 2/22?: “We had stake conference this week, and our stake president spoke on Jesus’s commandment to “fear not” because he would always be at our side. He discussed how pain is real and unavoidable, but the suffering we experience when we dwell on past pain or anticipate future pain can be avoided by most people. I’d felt an impression that the Lord would have a message for me in this conference, and that was it. Things at work are not great and there’s a good chance they’ll get worse. (I work for a university supporting federally funded research, which isn’t the whole story but it’s enough.) And I’ve been in a funk about it for a while, for exactly the reasons the stake president described. Now, nothing he said was new to me. But having the Lord tell me pretty directly that that’s why I was feeling what I was feeling and that I don’t have to feel that way has made a big difference. It was delightful when our visiting general authority stood up later and said he’d obeyed the stake president’s counsel to take an inventory of his fears, and number one on his list was public speaking. Especially in English (not his first language).” Feb 23, 23:21
- on What Did Church Lead You to Think About Yesterday, 2/22?: “One of the talks in sacrament meeting was on how prayers are answered – with a quick yes, or a quick no, or a “not yet” – from someone whose career had taken a somewhat different path based on how his prayers were answered. That same path also set him up to survive brain cancer nearly unscathed over a decade later. Some weeks, the quality of the talks is vastly out of proportion to the number of people who are there to hear it.” Feb 23, 17:58
- on Unbinding Isaac: Aaron Koller on the Trauma and Theology of Genesis 22: “I wrote in an earlier comment that “[a] covenant relationship includes engagement and talking, and maybe even occasional mild pushback, and the learning that occurs therewith.” It was so with Abraham. It was also so with Jacob, who wrestled with God (and prevailed over God), and God changed his name to Israel. Yes, I don’t think God wants exact obedience to himself, or to the church or the church’s president. I think God wants a covenant relationship includes engagement and talking, and maybe even occasional mild pushback, and the learning that occurs therewith. He wants us to be sons, not servants. At least, that’s how I see it. I realize that our current church culture might lead others to see it differently, and I appreciate the opportunity for this kind of conversation.” Feb 23, 17:12
- on What Did Church Lead You to Think About Yesterday, 2/22?: “I learned that God loves to help find car keys, wedding rings, and passing tests more than any other trial. I was also deeply moved by a story of a person losing their shoe as a traumatic experience but God loed them enough because they cared so much that they turned around and it was under their chair.” Feb 23, 15:55
