- Jack on 17 Thoughts About Resistance: “Jonathan, I’m on a larger playing field–so to speak. I’m saying the sense from the left — generally, not just politicians — was much more sympathetic towards the George Floyd protests than it was towards the breach of the Capitol. “Yes this is bad–but these people are angry,” was the rhetoric that I remember. Whereas with the breach it was more like, “this is the worst thing to happen since 911.” So much of it is a matter of bias–and as much as I admire your abilities as a scholar I don’t think you or I or anyone is immune to that sort of thing.” Jan 17, 22:40
- on 17 Thoughts About Resistance: “The good news is, it’s not November 2028, and our only choices are not voting for Trump’s heir who will continue his assault on the Constitution and voting for a Democrat. Conservatives voting for Democrats is not a sustainable solution to our crisis of democracy anyway. My plea to any conservatives who might read this is to get involved in the Republican party, vote in your primary, and give us better candidates. More people like Spencer Cox and Mitt Romney, and fewer people like Mike Lee. If your current representative shows any signs of being willing to stand up to Trump, let them know you’ll have their back. A two-party democracy cannot survive without two parties that support it. @Jack: I wouldn’t be too confident of Trump’s faithfulness. He’s surrounded himself with women of a particular “type” that he apparently finds attractive (to the point that cosmetic surgeons talk about “Mar-a-Lago Face”). His wife isn’t around much. Maybe at his age it’s a look-but-don’t-touch situation, but nothing else in his behavior makes me think he’s either changed his values or learned self-control. @Jonathan: I’d say the value of the war chapters as a guide for soldiers who don’t want to lose their souls was already pretty clear in 2008. One of the key standards, “Allow defeated enemies to surrender, and treat them decently when they do” was under attack then just as it is now.” Jan 17, 15:52
- on 17 Thoughts About Resistance: “But there’s actually not a “both sides” to a lot that’s going on, and trying to find one just forces yourself into some bad places. There’s not a way to look at it that makes selling presidential pardons okay. Warrantless searches are not okay. Violently detaining protesters is not okay. Threatening friendly democratic allies with territorial seizure is not okay. Keeping seized foreign funds out of the reach of the U.S. Treasury is not okay. Arresting people based on their skin color is not okay. Detaining Native Americans for suspected immigration violations and then losing track of them is not okay. Letting children in Africa starve and die of illness while the food and medicine they need rots in warehouses is not okay. Destroying the alliance that has protected us and our democratic allies for 80 years while a war is going on is not okay. Sending people to foreign torture prisons without a trial is not okay. Building concentration camps to make people suffer as they await deportation is not okay. If you can’t see this, you’re not seeing the other side of the screen. You’re staring at a blank wall, not reality. Jack, what do you even mean by “are we willing to condemn the left”? The George Floyd riots were 5.5 years ago, while Trump was still president. George Floyd’s killer was tried and convicted. No Democratic politician of any significance promoted looting. There is no way that rioting in 2020 is the “both sides” to what the U.S. government is doing today as a matter of policy. Were you seriously expecting a multiple convicted felon, a long-time friend of Jeffrey Epstein, someone found culpable for rape in 2023, to strengthen the family? There was a choice to make in 2024, and as a 3rd-party voter, you made a disastrous choice. Now that you’ve seen the evidence of the consequences, you need to rethink the evidence and thought processes that led you to that choice.” Jan 17, 15:38
- on 17 Thoughts About Resistance: “Your first bullet point and the First presidency’s counsel are the primary reasons why I didn’t vote for Trump in 2024. That said, while I agree with some of your criticisms I’m not convinced that Trump is a modern King Noah–and I certainly don’t believe his “concubines” are any more indicative of him being Noah than those of Bill Clinton or JFK. In fact, I think the marked difference between Trump and the others is that he’s been true to his wife while serving as POTUS. Also, I’m not convinced that Trump intended for some of his goon-like followers to “storm the castle.” I admit that his “stop the steal” rhetoric (which I hated) fueled the fire. But even so, are we willing to condemn the left for its rhetoric vis-a-vis the George Floyd riots the previous summer? At least 25 people lost their lives–no to mention the 2 billion in property damages. So I guess what I’m saying is that all too often we see what we’re primed to see based on our values. Who can calculate the horrific scale of loss caused by the destruction of the family? And, oh, how the left has proudly carried the torch on that march over the proverbial cliff. And yet how is it the so many folks view it as a net good?” Jan 17, 13:00
- on 17 Thoughts About Resistance: “The late, lamented Scott Adams explained the political divide as “one screen, two movies,” and that’s clearly what’s going on here. I don’t see the current administration as particularly wicked (or righteous) and I certainly don’t see it intentionally inflicting cruelty for its own sake or delighting in bloodshed. I don’t expect to be able to convince y’all to see the “movie” the way I do, but could you drop the self-righteousness and condescension and stop saying people seeing the other “movie” are wicked?” Jan 17, 12:55
- on 17 Thoughts About Resistance: “It’s point 11 that I find particularly interesting. We talk about how the American Revolution had to happen so the gospel would have a space to be free enough to be restored. And we claim that the revolutionaries were on the right side and doing good. But we haven’t drawn a line where it’s acceptable to revolt vs “being subject to kings”.” Jan 17, 11:30
- on 17 Thoughts About Resistance: “RLD, it’s easy to overlook how dramatically our outlook on the Book of Mormon has changed in the last decade. In 2008, Julie opened a post by writing, “Yes, folks, it’s that time again: the dreaded Book of Mormon war chapters are upon us. It’s time for our quadrennial effort to determine why on earth someone would go to so much effort to write the details of long-ago battles in a book that was written for our day.” And now we say: Oh. That’s why. Well, this is awful. Clair, I would much prefer to post about my weird ideas on Book of Mormon history. Unfortunately the urgent moral issue of our time is the new and unhappy circumstance of being subject to a wicked administration. I’ve tried diligently to empathize with Trump voters, but at this point we have to recognize that the president is doing a lot of wicked and destructive things. It goes beyond policies that one side or the other may disagree with, to intentionally inflicting cruelty for its own sake and delighting in bloodshed. Curtis, people need to recognize that one side of the political divide has in fact become wicked, at least at the federal level. Mitt Romney deserves an apology – again – for the criticism he took in 2016 for allegedly currying favor with Trump in return for a cabinet appointment. But now that we’ve seen the alternative, we know that the responsible adults who served in the first Trump administration did their nation a tremendous service by averting disaster (and Romney would have been a much better Secretary of State than Rex Tillerson). But those people are gone now. The people who stoke Trump’s worst impulses and who were kept far from him before are now in charge, the Republicans you elected to prevent the worst from happening have utterly failed to stop it, and our country is doing some deeply evil things that justify the historical analogies. Even if the evil doesn’t trouble you, the potential for complete national disaster should.” Jan 17, 11:27
- on 17 Thoughts About Resistance: “By the 2024 election, it was pretty clear to those who had ears to hear that the First Presidency did not want members to vote for Trump. But not so clear that those who were going to vote for him anyway had to acknowledge that they were going against prophetic counsel and thus provoke a faith crisis. I imagine that will continue to be their strategy, and I see the wisdom in it. I don’t want the MAGA members of my ward to leave the Church (especially since my ward is politically diverse enough that everyone knows not to talk about politics, so I don’t know who the MAGA members are). Right now it’s an act of resistance just to teach the Sermon on the Mount, given that Trump has explicitly and openly rejected it (see his remarks at Charlie Kirk’s funeral). And there was an awful lot of that at the last general conference! Trump is not going to be around much longer, and then there is going to be a battle for the soul of America’s right wing. (Some think Erika Kirk is already trying to make it more faithful to the New Testament–note that Trump was responding to her.) Keeping MAGA members in the Church, where they can continue to be taught the actual teachings of Jesus, may be what’s best for healing American politics as well as accomplishing the real mission of the Church.” Jan 17, 10:08
- on 17 Thoughts About Resistance: “There’s a lot I could say, but I’ll stick to this: if it was inappropriate for Sen. Lee to compare Trump to Captain Moroni (and it was) it is equally inappropriate to compare him to King Noah. There is some truth to both comparisons, but they both imply that one side of the political divide is righteous and the other is wicked. We should be able to acknowledge that good people can disagree about political policies.” Jan 17, 09:21
