- Cjd on Your Reactions to Church Yesterday, 12/14: “Here are my reactions to Sunday’s meeting: – There was a baby blessing. My heart filled with joy when the mother carried the child to the front, then she sat on a chair in the middle of the circle of men, the father placed his hands on the child’s head to give him a blessing. A welcome inclusive event. – A young deacon shared his experience of the priesthood in such a simple and humble way that I feel more understanding of the priesthood than ever before in my life. – An expression of gaining a testimony as a process like learning and growing appreciation and confidence in nature from simple walks in the woods to camping skills and wilderness survival was positively poetic. True worship and rejuvenation.” Dec 16, 22:24
- on Sociology of Religion Terms and the Restored Gospel: “Hoosier: That’s definitely part of it. For us TBMs we do have a monopoly on that, to continue with the metaphor. A Turtle Named Mack: Of course! How could I forget that one. The sect/religion transition is also a fruitful analytical lense, especially since a lot of our history can be described as us trying to be seen as a “legitimate” mainstream religion, but I don’t know if we’ll ever shake our “cult in the desert” image, and I wouldn’t expect God’s religious community to be any other way. I also like your startup analogy. We’re definitely past the startup stage where things are swinging hard back and forth hard and nobody knows if we’ll be around tomorrow. We’re here to stay, which is more comfortable if less exciting in a way. RL: I agree, on the high tension/low tension continuum I feel like we operate at a very unique location: being as high demand/tension as possible while still being “in the world.” It’s quite the balancing act creating Zion where we are instead of doing the closed off, intentional community thing. RLD: Good point. Conjuring up “collective effervescence,” maybe an intense version of what we’d call “the spirit” is hard. As a seminary teacher I could talk all day about the interesting aspects of this or that Old Testament book, it’s not that hard, it’s not even that hard to make it enjoyable and fun, but to teach it and have the spirit in the air is hard.” Dec 16, 19:34
- on CFM 12/22-12/28: Poetry for “The Matchless Gift of God’s Divine Son”: “Thank you, Kent. These are lovely and grand. Merry Christmas” Dec 16, 14:44
- on Sociology of Religion Terms and the Restored Gospel: ““Collective Effervescence” has not been part of my vocabulary, but it is exactly what I’m trying to produce whenever I conduct a church choir. I think I succeeded last Sunday (our Christmas program). But it’s my experience that only the choir members really get the resulting “electricity,” so if you want it you know what to do.” Dec 16, 14:07
- on Sociology of Religion Terms and the Restored Gospel: “On how we are unique at least in an American context I think the idea that we seem to like everyone else way more than they like us and makes us a unique worldview. We serve a place for folks who feel comfortable in this space. We also are participating in the largest private wealth transfer from the wealthy to the poor I can think of of and voluntary institution. I feel like our community identity is weaker than it was but still stronger than anything available in the Protestant sphere at least in the US. We stand out for our mission work in that it requires a temporary high commitment from those going out. On the convert side I think a lurking secondary variable of joining besides religious transformation is the desire for social transformation as it seems converts are either trying to find community or trying to find social mobility as outcasts. My ancestors in part joined to get out of poverty and move up and many current converts are doing this too. We the Church are focusing our efforts on this demographic with pathways.” Dec 16, 13:57
- on Delighting in bloodshed: “Jonathan Green, I’m not asking the Church to take sides in partisan politics specifically for the sake of power to one side or the other. I’m saying that Prophetic leadership includes naming moral dangers plainly when they are reshaping people’s values and justifying cruelty and violence. Another definition of a Prophet (lowercase p perhaps) is someone who speaks truth to a culture of lies (Sister Joan Chittister). A global audience may be a reason to refrain from normally endorsing parties or candidates, but it is not a reason to avoid clarity about evil and consequences or to clarify their lies with TRUTH. In scripture, P/prophets did not speak in abstractions when societies were being led astray, they named idolatry, oppression, and bloodshed, even evil kings, judges or other leaders if needed, because those things had become normalized. Truth had been obscured. Messages so general that the deceived can hear them as *approval* are NOT WARNINGS, they are fog. It also isn’t accurate to say that religion exists outside political order. Historically, religion has almost never been separate from authority, law, and public life. In ancient societies, religious teaching shaped what was considered just, lawful, and acceptable behavior. Prophets confronted kings, systems, and collective sins, not just private hearts. (This is actually pretty fascinating to think about. I wish Dan McClellan the bible scholar was a T&S reader and we could ask him for clarification on this point.) Religion can only be apolitical if it is reduced to private sentiment with no claims on public conduct, which Christianity, by design is NOT. Or in other words, religion is only neutral it it lives solely in the heart of an individual and makes no claims about how people should treat one another in the world. Christianity has never been that. The tent of Zion, the Saints, the Church, the United Order, has always been about community making a difference in this world by collaboration. Asking why modern leaders are silent is NOT the same as refusing to act ourselves. Individual action matters, but so does the voice of the watchmen, and so does our community. When leaders explicitly reserve the right to speak on serious moral and spiritual threats, choosing NOT to NAME a clear danger is NOT neutrality. (As Holocaust survivor Elie Weisel said, “Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.”) It is a CHOICE with consequences, especially for the vulnerable. This calls into mind the big paradox of religion, individual or communal salvation. faith is personal, yet it is lived, tested, and actualized in community. I don’t want to thread-jack your post, but just pointing out that there is a communal dependency and even goal to our quests. So why doesn’t it just work for us to take the responsibility ourselves and ignore the fact our community chooses inaction? Because institutional moral leadership and individual action are not substitutes for one another, they’re complimentary. Zion is not a solo project. We are yoked to one another, covenentally and morally, and the work that actually changes the world, resisting evil, protecting the vulnerable, building peace, requires shared sacrifice, coordination, and mutual reinforcement. No man is an island. No lasting moral movement is sustained by private individuals acting alone, it survives when communities, sometimes even small, hidden, or counter-cultural, share responsibility, sacrifice and are one in purpose. When institutions refuse to lead, they don’t stay neutral, they leave people to struggle alone against the highly coordinated and organized forces you quite well described in your post. And this matters so much now, when religion’s social power is fading and the “Nones” are rising. Churches no longer function as the default for society. The church has focused on becoming more of the spiritual spa for individuals or a private wellness practice (YW Personal Progress, Personal Home and Family Enrichment, Family study of Come Follow Me, personal temple work, etc.). But Christianity was never meant to be a spiritual spa. It was meant to change the world, to confront violence and injustice (peacefully, non-violently), reduce and eradicate suffering, hunger, poverty, war, etc. If the Church sets aside its millennial zeal and turns inward, it should not be surprised when people begin to wonder what, exactly, it is for. And if a church with over $100 billion in assets (including airwaves, broadcast stations and satellites, newspapers, universities, magazines, global distribution systems, political and diplomatic networks, printing presses, websites, technology platforms, farms, real estate, and countless other resources) chooses SILENCE in the face of the most urgent moral threats of our time, including matters of life and death, it should again not be surprised when that question grows louder. But, we can agree to disagree too.” Dec 16, 12:59
- on Snorkeling in Scripture: Joshua Sears on Why Latter-day Saints Need Study Bibles: “I saw the Newsroom update, but it also makes explicit the huge gap between different language editions. Spanish speaking saints can officially read a bible updated in 2009, Portuguese speaking saints can officially read a bible updated in 2015, English speaking saints can officially read a bible updated in 1611…” Dec 16, 12:16
- on Sociology of Religion Terms and the Restored Gospel: “…really, the concept is that religions develop and transform over time, and that while their histories aren’t linear they are somewhat predictable. And that’s why it’s helpful to view the Church as an organization, and to study it the way we study other organizations. Businesses move from startups to corporations, affinity and volunteer groups become more professional over time, and even criminal organizations experience this development. Sociology’s tools for studying organizations can help us understand LDS Church history and contribute to making sense of its contemporary evolution.” Dec 16, 12:04
- on Sociology of Religion Terms and the Restored Gospel: “Stephen- When I started reading I expected you would eventually present concepts such as cult or new religious movement. These aren’t specific to sociology but sociology does have unique insight that applies to the Church. Thinking of religions as moving through stages of development (cult, sect, denomination, church, …) is imperfect but the LDS movement is a good test case for how to apply these concepts. I know my favorite gospel doctrine class to teach every four years is when I get to characterize the early Church as a cult and then watch everyone freak out, but then walking them through what we really mean by that and calming them down and getting them comfortable with the comparison. Anyway, thanks for this!” Dec 16, 11:52
- on Sociology of Religion Terms and the Restored Gospel: “Frankly I see the point of the Church as facilitating the creation and formalization of covenants in vivo and by proxy. We’re that department of God’s firm. Your numbers do not have to be enormous to accomplish that. But you do have to have a little bit everywhere.” Dec 16, 10:50
