- ji on Unnecessary Spiritual Hierarchies: Leaders Receiving the Sacrament First: “I don’t think the 3 Nephi model establishes our modern practice. Jesus didn’t give the bread to the twelve first because they were presiding — He was presiding! Remember, He gave the bread to the twelve and they ate, and afterwards the twelve gave to the multitude. If we follow the 3 Nephi model as precedent, using deacons as distributors, wouldn’t the deacons partake first, and then they would distribute to the multitude? But generally, in our practice, the deacons partake last or near last. I am okay with our modern practice of the presiding official partaking first, but we cannot say we do that because of the 3 Nephi model.” Jul 23, 06:25
- on Unnecessary Spiritual Hierarchies: Leaders Receiving the Sacrament First: “by that i mean that anciently, He didn’t give bread and wine (or loaves and fishes) personally to everyone. He asked those with His authority to do it. that’s how He rolls.” Jul 23, 01:55
- on Unnecessary Spiritual Hierarchies: Leaders Receiving the Sacrament First: “i actually disagree on this one. scriptural patterns show Jesus administering the sacrament first to His 12, and then to others. i’m particularly struck by that pattern in the book of mormon. for me, it’s all about the way HIS power is distributed and is all an invitation to ponder what (or Whom) priesthood holders represent. if the bishop represents God or Christ, wouldn’t we start with serving Him the gift He gave us? and yet He desires us all to receive it AND lets 11-year-old boys have the experience of representing Him in that act…just like He did anciently.” Jul 23, 01:54
- on Unnecessary Spiritual Hierarchies: Leaders Receiving the Sacrament First: “What’s interesting to me is that the handbook requires this practice, it isn’t one of the “unwritten order of things” practices, but there is no explanation of WHY the presiding authority is served first. I agree that it appears to be an “unnecessary spiritual hierarchy”, but others who have commented seem to find it off-putting (and I get that) while others believe it’s an “innocuous display of respect”. Okay. Since there is no explanation for this requirement it can be anything you want it to be I guess.” Jul 22, 21:05
- on Unnecessary Spiritual Hierarchies: Leaders Receiving the Sacrament First: “In the sacramental meal in Third Nephi, the apostles eat first, and they eat until they are filled. Then everyone else in the congregation gets to eat. I think that is the scriptural precedent for the practice.” Jul 22, 19:54
- on Unnecessary Spiritual Hierarchies: Leaders Receiving the Sacrament First: “Innocuous displays of respect for people we dump a ton of personal concerns on each week are good, actually.” Jul 22, 18:52
- on Unnecessary Spiritual Hierarchies: Leaders Receiving the Sacrament First: “I don’t man. In my Bible Jesus had each of the Apostles had wash His feet before they were allowed to eat the stale Wonder bread and drink the oddly metallic-tasting water. Jesus was super big on titles, hierarchy, and ‘the uniform of the Priesthood.”” Jul 22, 18:02
- on Judge Not in Church—or anywhere (Or What Did Church Lead You to Think About Yesterday), 7/12: “Here’s a few of my thoughts in reaction to what I experienced in Church recently: I’ve noticed that we’re singing more “children’s songs” — i.e., songs that would have been segregated into the “Children’s Songbook” in the past. As I understand it, the Church is eliminating the Children’s hymnbook in favor of everything in a single book. But what interests me is how this will affect our understanding of hymns. Since the hymns oriented towards children generally have simpler melodies and use simpler language, will our understanding of what a hymn is change? Will more complex hymns go out-of-favor? And will we benefit from more people singing and more connection as a result? One speaker recently said something about pride that led me to redefine it — pride is thinking that my contributions are more noteworthy than others. Like what I said in the op above, there’s an element of comparison here, since we’re comparing our contributions to others. Not only do we have different abilities and different situations that limit or expand our contributions, but we also are leaving out a host of other factors. Is pride just about comparison and judgment? Someone in Sunday school used the phrase “voting with their feet” when talking about who comes to church. In addition to thinking about how they are essentially making a judgment when they do that, it led me to the phrase I’ve used a lot in the last few years: “The Life Changing Magic of Just Showing Up.” The phrase doesn’t say whose life is changed when we show up — I must admit that I often think about it as my life when I show up. But it also can be life changing for those who I show up for — whether it’s service or just attending church. Showing up is definitely life changing. ” Jul 22, 15:25
- on Unnecessary Spiritual Hierarchies: Leaders Receiving the Sacrament First: “I agree that it’s unnecessary and certainly not scriptural. I also am not fond of the practice of having all the other deacons wait at the sacrament table until the bishop takes the sacrament. The handbook says the presiding officer receives the sacrament first, but it doesn’t say we are supposed to make a big show of it. I’m not sure of the current handbook, but not too many years ago, it did say that deacons can be walking to their assigned place while the bishop takes the sacrament. The wait-at-the-table practice seems to come and go over the years depending on the ward and the bishop and the Aaronic priesthood advisors. A few years ago, we had an advisor who always assigned himself to the pass to the bishop. The deacons were perfectly able to see when the bishop had taken the sacrament, but the advisor would nevertheless turn around and give the most exaggerated nod imaginable to signal the deacons that they could leave the table. I’m not sure, but he might have been monitoring the moment the bishop swallowed, or perhaps when the bread had fully transited the esophagus. For a short while in my ward, they had the deacons wait for both the stake president and the bishop to take the sacrament. I think the bishop put an end to that. There is only one person presiding.” Jul 22, 14:46
- on Unnecessary Spiritual Hierarchies: Leaders Receiving the Sacrament First: “Here’s the one I struggle with. Church protocol says that only the presiding officer in the meeting can decide if the congregation may stand for the singing of a hymn. I’m not sure if this directive is currently in the handbook, but even if it is, many people don’t know about it. I’ve heard more than one first-person account of being at stake conference and seeing the music leader be publicly corrected when they unknowingly motion for the congregation to stand for the intermediate hymn. I just don’t understand how this can possibly be so important that it’s worth embarrassing some poor unsuspecting music leader in public.” Jul 22, 12:44
