- Mortimer on What Was Revealed to You In Church (Or What Did Church Lead You to Think About Yesterday), 4/12)?: “I’ve been thinking about how we’re all in different chapters of the same book of life. When you’re talking to someone at the beginning of their story, you have to be careful not to rush them or spoil what they’re meant to discover for themselves. You have to let them have their adventure, to grow into understanding the way you once did. And yet, those early chapters carry something special, the excitement, the wonder of first discovery. It’s something people further along in the book often miss, even mourn a little, because you can’t go back and experience it the same way again. Being a saint among others in different chapters can feel isolating. Either you see things they don’t yet see, or feel things others can’t quite return to. It can be lonely, even in a highly connected community. I’ve usually clung to a deep testimony of brother and sisterhood and marveled at the beauty of our diversity,- all ages, backgrounds, stages, etc. united in the gospel. But here’s the paradox: are we a community or a lone traveler? Yesterday, I felt the other side of that truth, that oftentimes I walk alone.” Apr 14, 09:44
- on A Review: 40 Questions About Mormonism: “That is uncanny. I was looking at their series on creation and evolution yesterday.” Apr 14, 09:36
- on What Was Revealed to You In Church (Or What Did Church Lead You to Think About Yesterday), 4/12)?: “This morning in testimony meeting, the first person up brought her Bible, read from Ezra, and testified that the war in Iran is a repeat of King Cyrus’s liberation of the Jewish people, and it strengthens her testimony of the rightness of God’s plan. I was pretty gobsmacked. Thank heaven a few testimonies later a young man who has lived in the Czech Republic for eight years stood up and said, “This is hard for me to do, but I must talk about the Ukrainian refugees we had in our homes when Russia invaded Ukraine, and I must talk about the Iranian people that I know whose lives are shattered by this war, and I want to drive home that we are all brothers and sisters, all of us, Iranians included, and I am grateful God is a God of miracles, I am grateful for many things, but not that war…” He spoke calmly and without a spirit of contention and I was so grateful he spoke for those of us who are shocked and horrified by Trump’s actions.” Apr 14, 08:29
- on What Was Revealed to You In Church (Or What Did Church Lead You to Think About Yesterday), 4/12)?: “What I’ve learned – and continue to have confirmation for – is that there are some very good people within “the Church”; but as for its’ meetings – there’s not much there (other than taking the Sacrament) for people to be uplifted by. Sad, but True.” Apr 14, 07:21
- on Glory, Light, and Law: Redefining “Power” in the Doctrine and Covenants: “So, I guess what I’m saying is that I don’t think you’re arguing different conclusions, but might be engaging in violent agreement colored by concerns about taking things to extremes.” Apr 13, 22:15
- on Glory, Light, and Law: Redefining “Power” in the Doctrine and Covenants: “I think it might be said that RLD is suggesting a broader conception of persuasion. I don’t think they are saying that current church leaders don’t need to use persuasion, so much as developing a relationship of trust is a long-term form of persuasion. That doesn’t equate to expecting blind obedience to every command.” Apr 13, 22:08
- on Glory, Light, and Law: Redefining “Power” in the Doctrine and Covenants: “RLD, I think perhaps we’re approaching this from different starting points, and so we are talking past each other. My starting point is the positive or affirmative duty incumbent on a church leader to use persuasion, long-suffering, gentleness, meekness, love unfeigned, and so forth in his interactions with members. Yes, I think this is the right way for a church leader to lead. My focus in this thread is on the leader. Your starting point is somewhere else, perhaps the duty of members to obey their church leader? Or the unacceptability of a low-ranking member to have a thought about how the scripture applies to higher-ranking leaders? I am agreeing with the Lord in my assertion that persuasion is a duty of one who wants to be am effective church leader in the Lord’s way, but I do admit it is my personal observation that there is room for improvement among us in this matter — meanwhile, you feel current practices are compliant — yes, I think this is where we differ. Anyway, we’re talking past each other, so I will bow out and let you have the last word. I appreciate the OP’s invitation to re-visit our conceptions of power in light of the Lord’s way. Best wishes.” Apr 13, 15:35
- on What Was Revealed to You In Church (Or What Did Church Lead You to Think About Yesterday), 4/12)?: “My wife and I had been out for a walk in the morning and spent quite a bit of time talking about how complicated life was (family, work, Church). Then when I got to Church, I was greeted by so many loving people. I heard their testimonies and felt that things weren’t as complicated as we had talked about. We just need to love God, and love our neighbours. I know can still be complicated, but attending Church and being “fellowcitizens with the saints” was reassuring.” Apr 13, 15:09
- on Glory, Light, and Law: Redefining “Power” in the Doctrine and Covenants: “Not at all! But the example of Jesus does show that not every directive needs to be accompanied by an argument for why it’s a good idea. A ward should be persuaded that their bishop loves them, wants what is good for them, has some wisdom, and receives guidance from the Lord. Then he can draw upon that prior persuasion and give routine directions without having to make the case for them. That’s still persuasion. The bishop needs to be aware that his ward’s faith (trust) in him is a finite resource. He should make the case for his decisions whenever possible, especially when he knows they will try people’s faith (trust) in him. He also needs to continue to persuade people of his love and goodwill–you see this later in D&C 121 when a leader who is inspired to correct is directed to show an increase in love afterwards. It really is all about persuasion, just some of it is implicit. I would like to see more explicit persuasion in the Church–I really hope we’ll get more of a case for the changes to our second hour meetings, for example. But I don’t think our current practices are out of line with Christ’s example.” Apr 13, 11:11
- on Glory, Light, and Law: Redefining “Power” in the Doctrine and Covenants: “RLD, I take it, then, that you disagree with the inclusion of the word “persuasion” in the formulation in D&C 121:41? “No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned…” I see all of these as essential elements to help a church leader avoid unrighteous dominion, and this formulation reminds leaders (well, at least those who read it) that they must be servants (see also Matt. 20:26-27). If you are trying to persuade me that a church leader can give commandments to lower-ranking members and expect their obedience, I don’t think you can succeed. I have heard this message taught before, and I don’t accept it. Instead, I would prefer for more church leaders to follow the formulation in D&C 121:41ff. My thesis is still that in the Lord’s economy, the only way to get someone to do something in anything related to the gospel is through persuasion, kindness, love, and so forth — we cannot use rank, or office, or compulsion, or shame, or embarrassment, or callings. Everything has to be by persuasion, not by command. I don’t think you are alone among us in your disagreement with me, so you are in good company. Indeed, but I would say sadly, many even among us seem to prefer the leadership approach of Matt. 20:25 over the approach in verses 26-27, and hence, maybe, D&C 121:39 comes into play. I appreciate the OP’s invitation to re-visit our conceptions of power in light of the Lord’s way.” Apr 13, 09:41
