- Davidwayner on A Recap of the Book of Mormon Studies Association Conference: “Latinx? Really? Please show a little more respect for Spanish grammar.” Oct 23, 14:34
- on The Framework of My Historical Argument about Polygamy: “Adoption did not start under Smith, but came after him. Yes, shared marriage is tricky, but is laid out in Plato’s Republic. The abundant allusions to Plato’s Republic in Smith’s utopian statements suggests that was Smith’s ideal. (and I argue that the creation of Mormonism was a helped by more than just Smith, especially his father, but a few others too).” Oct 23, 13:21
- on The Framework of My Historical Argument about Polygamy: “The later institution of adoption of other men by church leaders (BY’s adoption of John D. Lee for example) allowed men to be connected without sharing wives. I don’t remember when this started, but it fits with JS’s notions. I don’t think the Johnson quote supports you, though it certainly explains JS’s thinking. Having women with multiple husbands would devolve to chaos. Whose is this or that child? No one knows. Only the mother could be known (in those days). Somehow this does not seem to me like the kind of orderly kingdoms JS imagined. And he did live in a day that prized male headship, as the Jacob’s pamphlet supports.” Oct 23, 13:16
- on The Framework of My Historical Argument about Polygamy: “I’ll take a look at the pamphlet, but I disagree with your interpretation of Smith’s afterlife theology. I’ll admit that such ideas do fit Brigham Young’s view, but I see Smith as having somewhat different ideals. I see Smith and seeking to bind loved ones together in life to form utopian connections. Sharing wives was a way for men to bind themselves to each other (as the ideal. This didn’t work, of course). I see Benjamin Johnson’s later quote as illustrative of Smith’s purpose. “The Prophet taught us that Dominion & powr in the great future, would be Comensurate with the no [number] of ‘Wives Childin & Friends’ that we inheret here and that our great mission to earth was to Organize a Neculi [nucleus] of Heaven to take with us.”” Oct 23, 12:01
- on The Framework of My Historical Argument about Polygamy: “The Sidney Hay Jacob pamphlet, The Peace Maker, published in Nauvoo in 1842, would seem to argue against your thesis. If it was a trial balloon to test how church members would react to polygamy and was published with Joseph Smiths’s blessing, the argument found in the pamphlet probably reflect JS’s views to some degree. Among other things, the pamphlet argued that polygamy would counteract women’s control (through sex) of men, and that would be a good thing! Beyond this, even though JS marries already-married women and encouraged them to still live with their husbands, his thought processes about building kingdoms in the hereafter through having many wives and children don’t really lend themselves to this interpretation.” Oct 23, 11:47
- on A Recap of the Book of Mormon Studies Association Conference: “It was really good! I’m sad you weren’t able to make it.” Oct 23, 11:20
- on A Recap of the Book of Mormon Studies Association Conference: “I wanted to go, and had plans to go, but then couldn’t make it. So I really appreciate this informative recap. Thank you, Chad!” Oct 23, 10:07
- on The Framework of My Historical Argument about Polygamy: “Again, I do not see JS marrying single women as deviation from shared marriage, and note the claim to Nancy Rigdon. What I do see as deviating from shared marriage is women NOT being able to have additional spouses like DC 132 insists on with all its “she shall be destroyed” talk. I argue that was not the policy before 1843 as suggested by the many married wives and the Nancy Rigdon statement. The details we have on Alger are pretty foggy, but Benjamin Johnson presents Alger marrying another guy soon after JS as not a rejection of JS. “She did not turn from the Church nor from her friendship for the Prophet while she lived.” But who knows? That was a short lived relationship that we don’t know a lot about, and Johnson’s statement comes much later. So I look for clues about what I see as JS’s larger purposes in sources both before and after Alger. ” Oct 22, 09:25
- on The Framework of My Historical Argument about Polygamy: “Stephen, thank you. If the span of time is 1829-1843, then I hope you’ll take plenty of time to address Fanny Alger as that relationship appears to complicate the argument. I will point out that John C. Bennett’s defense of his serial adultery (what he called spiritual wifery) as being learned from Joseph (albeit a very corrupted version of it and practiced for rather different reasons) would seem to support your theory.” Oct 22, 09:06
- on The Framework of My Historical Argument about Polygamy: “My argument is that shared marriage was the plan from the beginning, or c. 1829. Yes, Smith married some single women, but he was reported telling Nancy Rigdon that his proposed marriage “would not prevent her from marrying any other person.” That is, the wives didn’t HAVE to be married when Smith married them, and the report to Nancy is interesting. One such case is Hannah Dubois who Smith was reported marrying early in Nauvoo, who then LATER married Philo Dibble and Smith performed the wedding. Lots of Mormon scholars simply leave Hannah out of Smith’s list of wives under the belief that such an action didn’t fit Mormon theology. I argue it did. (See Compton’s In Sacred Loneliness, 631). So I argue the time frame of shared marriage being the plan was 1829 to 1843. That is, shared marriage was the concept even if Smith didn’t marry his first married wife until later. Women could be single and allowed to marry another husband under shared marriage, like the instruction to Nancy. ” Oct 22, 08:40
