- Hedgehog on Musical Archaeology: Recovering the Sophisticated Sound of Pioneer Utah: “Last Lemming, I imagine this would take after the West gallery band tradition in the uk, prior to the advent of organs for church music, a mix of strings and woodwind primarily, though sometimes brass as well. Anything from 3-12 musicians. I imagine these guys would be very familiar with this type of music. Thomas Hardy refers to the antics of such a band replaced by an organ in his story Under the Greenwood Tree. I wonder, now brass are no longer disapproved for sacrament meeting, might we see a return to virtuosic brass bands… This trumpet player can always hope.” Jun 15, 23:53
- on 15 Thoughts on The Thing This Week: “He has brought it up, maybe more as a statement than a complaint, much more recently than that. I was surprised when he mentioned it at the Christmas devotional last year. It hadn’t been that long since the time before that, and it had nothing to do with Christmas, let alone anything in that talk. And please, spell my name right next time.” Jun 15, 15:03
- on 15 Thoughts on The Thing This Week: ““Now President Oaks complains quite often in Conference, etc. how some member parents are not letting their children play with non-member children.” One thing that AI is really good at is giving it a defined data set and asking it to analyze it. I asked Perplexity AI to go to the churches website and look at all of the talks that Dallin Oaks has given in general conference that mentioned nonmember children playing with member children. It could only find a single example, a talk he gave in October 2014. Here is what he said; “Too often non-Mormons here in Utah have been offended and alienated by some of our members who will not allow their children to be friends with children of other faiths. Surely we can teach our children values and standards of behavior without having them distance themselves or show disrespect to any who are different.” So John Tabor, why do you have to make things up to try and make your point? Dallin Oaks hasn’t complained “quite often” in conference about this issue, he mentioned it once 12 years ago. And isn’t what he said exactly what we would want to hear? Why is Oaks the bogeyman here?” Jun 15, 11:52
- on 15 Thoughts on The Thing This Week: “This! This! Our 5th Sunday discussion was led by a retired federal judge in my ward, who’s now temple president and has been stake president, etc. The point I tried to make a few times is that for all the Church’s talk of religious freedom, etc., in Utah there’s an even stricter standard in the state constitution for church-state separation that has basically always been ignored. In 1992, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled against prayer at high school graduations. Elder Oaks came right out with an article that quoted David O. McKay that ending school prayer cut the spiritual umbilical cord between schools an students, and said that American tradition had always included public prayer. (Never mind Jesus’s direction to pray in our closets and not make outward public appearances.) Now President Oaks complains quite often in Conference, etc. how some member parents are not letting their children play with non-member children. Gee, I wonder where that started? President Hinckley wanted to have it both ways, between being good to our neighbors (member or non-member) on the one hand, and maintaining the existing church-state Gordian knot on the ground in Utah on the other. To be fair, the folks I crossed paths with at BYU and on my mission had very different views on appropriate church-state separation, depending on whether or not they had grown up in Utah. And Elder M. Russell Ballard came out in General Conference about being good neighbors, and acknowledged that what happens with the Church in Utah is a very small part of the Brethren’s big picture.” Jun 15, 10:25
- on 15 Thoughts on The Thing This Week: “In the America I grew up in, I didn’t have to care if the current presidential administration thought we were Christians or not. Even if they didn’t like us, we were protected by the 1st amendment, the rule of law, and the general consensus that people have the right to pursue happiness in the way they see fit. That’s all up in the air now. We have leaders in Washington who think it’s an appropriate use of government to promote their particular brand of Christianity and pressure people to live it. They’re fans of Viktor Orban and Patrick Deneen–and we’ll get more of them if J.D. Vance is Trump’s heir. They’ve abandoned the classical liberalism of the founders and think it’s the government’s job to teach people how to live, for their own good. I doubt that Latter-day Saints will be persecuted individually the way the administration currently persecutes immigrants, trans people, or those involved in the legal cases against Trump. But look at how they treat institutions they consider enemies, like universities, the media, law firms, or corporations. That’s all too plausible. Of course they can’t afford to treat us that way right now. As Jonathan says, it’s good to have senators–and enough voting power to make a difference in a closely divided country. The fact that so many members continue to vote for Trump and Trumpists is probably protecting us, for now. If we ever stop voting for them, or if they gain enough power that they no longer need our votes, then watch out. The trick is for the former to happen before the latter does. The solution is not for us to convince them that we are Christians and should be part of the “in” group. That’s never going to happen. The solution is to get back to religious freedom, pluralism, and classical liberalism so we don’t have to care whether they think we’re Christians or not. I keep hoping Republicans will reject Trumpism in their primaries–a two-party democracy needs two healthy parties. But if that fails, I hope more members will think carefully about what is really the lesser of two evils.” Jun 15, 08:56
- on Finding Meaning in Sacrament Meeting: Participation and Meaning in Church (Or What Did Church Lead You to Think About) Yesterday, 6/14?: “Here’s a few of my thoughts in reaction to what I experienced yesterday (6/14) in Church: One of the talks in Church was about stewardship. The speaker defined it as taking care of things that you DO NOT own. That latter part of the definition really got me thinking —— why is it that ownership changes our actions so much? Sometimes we don’t seem to care much at all for the things we own, and other times we take excessive care, as if we are worshiping them. In contrast, when we don’t own a thing, we seem completely disconnected from it. Why do some people invest hours in their cars or houses, making every detail perfect, but neglect their relationships with neighbors or responsibilities to their neighborhoods? What should we be responsible for? How do we keep our cares from being excessive, and invest in the things that have spiritual meaning? Oddly enough, when another speaker talked about the storms on the Sea of Galilee (which, they said, arise suddenly and take even experienced sailors by surprise), my mind went to the Gordon Lightfoot song “The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald”. I suppose each of us have texts that are so familiar they are nearly memorized, and have such meaning that they are nearly scripture. I wonder if we ever consider what texts are in our minds this way — what are the foundational, quasi-scriptural texts of our lives? One speaker said something about how they never completely understand what the Lord’s plan for their life is. That’s an interesting thought—we can’t really see the whole picture of our lives, even years later. We just don’t have the perspective, and we never will in this life. It’s what Paul meant in 1 Cor. 13 about “seeing through a glass darkly”. We don’t have clarity—ever—about anything! Uncertainty is this life. And in Elders Quorum, when someone was talking about King Saul in the Bible, they described his attitude when he first met Samuel, who soon anointed him King. The speaker described Saul as thinking “I don’t want to be King. I just want to find my donkeys.” Sometimes life is like that — we’re doing the mundane and life expects us to do the extraordinary. Sometimes our reaction is because we don’t want that responsibility, and other times it’s because we can’t see the unusual opportunity in front of us. I’m quite sure I’ve reacted both ways at different points. ” Jun 15, 00:59
- on 15 Thoughts on The Thing This Week: “Personally, I don’t really get how anyone can claim that “Mormons are finally discovering that they’ll get left out in the cold under Christian Nationalism”. It’s almost like the poster doesn’t understand the concept of “voting for the less two evils” idea some people use to justify their vote, Trump or otherwise. And believe me, I REALLY DID NOT want to vote for Trump.” Jun 14, 22:36
- on 15 Thoughts on The Thing This Week: “I liked the fact that we weren’t included in the DoD’s updated list of Christians. When we say Church History we mean 1820’s – 1880’s. When other churches say Church History they mean 200’s – 1600’s. There’s a lot of “church history” that we never cover. The Creeds are a really big deal to them. Given that defining what a Christian is, is a really big deal of the Creeds. And it’s something that’s barely on our radar at all. DezNat was Christian Nationalism, but was one that Mormons could do.” Jun 14, 18:34
- on 15 Thoughts on The Thing This Week: “Makes me think of how “the idea of eternal families is non-Biblical” when it comes to “Mormons aren’t Christian” literature, and those same “Christians” will turn around and tell people “accept Christ so you can be with your families in heaven.” Like how in “The Case for Christ” (one of the better Christian movies out there), how one character declares “The Resurrection means I will be with my wife again” – but my thought when seeing that was, if he saw a “Mormon” say something like that, he might trot out “there’s no marriage in heaven!” anti-Mormon trope. Also, DezNat was, to my understanding, based on Christian Nationalism. with DezNat short for “Deseret Nationalist/ism.” They are not missed.” Jun 14, 14:06
- on 15 Thoughts on The Thing This Week: “This issue is much ado about nothing. The Church’s name is much too long for lists like this. And Jesus-Christ is in our name. If we are going to get worked up about something there are much more important issues. And the importance of word Christian has been greatly devalued. There are just too many awful groups and individuals who consider themselves Christian. Our current U.S. President is an example of this.” Jun 14, 12:43
