- Jonathan Green on Filet-O-Fish and Keeping Mormonism Weird: “As long as we retain a lay clergy, assign talks to youth and congregation members, and have open-mic testimony meetings once a month, there’s going to be some tension with surrounding society. Given the opportunity, people can say some remarkable things. Beyond that, it’s important to retain behavioral expectations – conversions that don’t entail any particular change in one’s life are not a sign of a healthy church. Plus it’s important for the strength of relationships inside the community – one of our strengths – if everyone there has to shoulder the burden of being a bit weird in some way.” Jun 17, 13:09
- on Filet-O-Fish and Keeping Mormonism Weird: “Stephen, I’m curious if you listened to the recent Mormon Stories interview with Lance Kennedy. I know a lot of folks who read, write, and post on this blog are likely not big fans of John Dehlin, but I found the interview quite interesting. Lance is the son of a very successful Evangelical pastor and joined the Church around 2008. He cited some of the unique doctrines of the Church as being the impetus for his conversion (e.g., “As God now is, man once was”; Adam-God; the Word of Wisdom, the temple endowment mirroring free masonry (he’s a mason)). The second half of his interview (he’s still active by his own account) is his perspective on the Church’s attempts to move closer to mainline and/or Evangelical Protestant churches. Lance explained that his experience growing up in his father’s church is, to him, instructive on why the Church is doing what it is doing. It mirrors efforts many Protestant churches made as part of the “seeker-sensitive” growth strategy of the 90s and 2000s pioneered by Bill Hybels of the Willow Creek Community Church and Rick Warren of the Saddleback Church. The focus of that strategy was (as I understand it): (1) Welcoming Environment: Use contemporary music, modern visuals, and informal dress; (2) Accessible Language: Avoid overly technical or culturally specific terms; focus on relatable, everyday issues; (3) Practical Sermons: Emphasize self-improvement, life application, and biblical principles in ways newcomers can grasp; (4) Community Services: Offer programs like ESL classes, childcare, and community outreach to attract and retain visitors; and (5) Short, Engaging Messages: Often 20 minutes or less. I will say that the “seeker-sensitive” focus does start to sound familiar when we look at the changes that the Church has made, especially since President Nelson took office, but you can argue that the Church has been doing some version of trying to make itself more palatable since President McKay was in office. I’d also point to the 1990 changes to the endowment and the implementation of the three-hour block in 1980 as huge initial steps in sanding down our unique practices.” Jun 17, 12:26
- on Filet-O-Fish and Keeping Mormonism Weird: “Steven C: Are we about strict differences that really dont matter or are we about saving souls with the true gospel? Are we converting people to God and following the Savior or to a church? And, we could never look like everyone else even if we tried. We would have to get rid of 90% of what we do now. Having said all that, if our religion is JUST for getting people to the CK and the other faiths are getting people to the lessor kingdoms, then sure lets be different. But how about we get people in with the lessor law and help them go the higher law if/when they want to? We tend to be all CK or nothing and if that is not what you want, go be a Baptist your not welcome here. God gave the saints plenty of years to learn to live the higher laws and we now want converts to do it day one. Lets start out being more like them (Christians) and let them progress like the church had to. Even if we taught the WOW but did not require 100 compliance of it for baptism, that would be a good start. Our church culture has taught us that smokers and drinkers are bad people that are sinning. This is unfortunate. So there is a simple step we could take to look more like other faiths. IMO.” Jun 17, 11:04
- on Filet-O-Fish and Keeping Mormonism Weird: “Ji: I don’t even have a strong opinion about the particulars, as long as it keeps us unique. Rec911: But on the other hand if we look just like everybody else there’s less reason to be LDS rather than any other standard Christian option.” Jun 17, 07:53
- on Filet-O-Fish and Keeping Mormonism Weird: “I think all the changes that the church has done in the last 7 years has been for two reasons; 1- Help keep younger members from leaving. 2- Make the church look more main-stream Christian to other faiths for more converts and a better convert experience. (retention) I am for any change that makes us act/look less cultish.” Jun 17, 06:59
- on Filet-O-Fish and Keeping Mormonism Weird: “I think we should “Keep Mormonism weird,” to crib from Austin’s unofficial slogan. Stephen, what rules would you want to see created to keep some tension with the larger environment?” Jun 17, 06:17
- on Mimicry or New Religious Hotspot: Jesus-Figures and Joseph Smith-Figures in 1st Century Palestine and 19th-Century New York: “My father was a firm believer that Roger Williams helped prepare the way for JS and the Restoration. Williams was expelled from Massachusetts Colony for advocating for religion freedom and separation of church and state. He and his followers settled the Rhode Island area.” Jun 16, 17:29
- on CFM 6/22-6/28: Thoughts and Poetry for “Hear Thou in Heaven Their Prayer”: “Some of us believe that prayer is a form of meditation. A chance to clear our mind of effluvia and hopefully better understand and evaluate our situation. It provides an opportunity to assess the things we are happy about and things we can improve. How we are blessed. It’s unrealistic for God to answer our prayers. He’s not near Kolob stirring the pot. We have 9 billion proofs of that. We need to be prepared to make our own decisions.” Jun 16, 17:02
- on Finding Meaning in Sacrament Meeting: Participation and Meaning in Church (Or What Did Church Lead You to Think About) Yesterday, 6/14?: “I’m not convinced that we have real (or absolute) freedom of thought. Besides physical traits, we inherent memory and concentration abilities. We may even have genes that affect our relationship with God. We also have strong environmental influences. Including such things as education. Both affect our thoughts. What we think is influenced by both our genetic and environmental heritage. All this affects our ability to be optimistic. To react to adverse situations. I’m all for some forms of genetic and environmental determinism. Our thoughts are not totally free.” Jun 16, 16:43
- on Finding Meaning in Sacrament Meeting: Participation and Meaning in Church (Or What Did Church Lead You to Think About) Yesterday, 6/14?: “Meaning in LDS Sacrament Meetings? Hmmmmm…..now that there is a paradox; if I’ve ever encountered one. While I LOVE taking the sacrament and singing the hymns; beyond that the rest of the meeting is nothing but pure pablum. “Follow the Covenant Path”…..”Go to the Temple”…..”President Nelson said”……”Isn’t Missionary Work just awesome?”……Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah….” Jun 16, 15:00
