{"id":52350,"date":"2026-01-03T04:36:49","date_gmt":"2026-01-03T11:36:49","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/?p=52350"},"modified":"2026-01-03T08:44:58","modified_gmt":"2026-01-03T15:44:58","slug":"spiritual-experiences-going-off-the-rails","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/2026\/01\/spiritual-experiences-going-off-the-rails\/","title":{"rendered":"Spiritual Experiences Going off the Rails"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>So I\u2019m thinking about this issue after having watched Netflix\u2019s documentary on Jodi Hildebrandt, \u201cEvil Influencer\u201d: what\u2019s up with Mormons doing criminal and immoral things under the belief they are inspired by God?<\/p>\n<p>Such acts, of course, are pretty rare, but at this point it\u2019s feeling a little disconcerting for it to appear that a seeming high percentage of such concerning cases happen among the Mormons.<\/p>\n<p><!--more-->I <a href=\"https:\/\/juvenileinstructor.org\/are-visionaries-dangerous-to-society\/\">wrote a post<\/a> in response to chat around <em>Under the Banner of Heaven<\/em> that it\u2019s pretty clear from the historical record that those willing to make great personal sacrifice to follow the spirit have been a tremendous force for good in human history, so let me just say right off the bat that claiming to fix these problems by rejecting all spiritual promptings doesn\u2019t appear valid to me. The atheist communists killed around 100,000,000 people in the 20<sup>th<\/sup> century.<\/p>\n<p>But some of the cases of Mormon inspiration having gone bad are truly horrifying. Not only Hildebrandt, but Chad Daybell and Vallow killing Vallow\u2019s kids under the belief they were demon possessed is really hard to fathom. I note some other cases in that post like the Laffertys.<\/p>\n<p>In the many discussions over Mormon uneasiness over Nephi being commanded to kill Laban, I remember an old BCC post encouraging anyone feeling such a prompting to seek psychological help. I did a <a href=\"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/2025\/07\/other-impulses-intuition-imagination-deception-mental-illness-who-knows\/\">post on the question of \u201cother impulses<\/a>\u201d related to the spirt, noting this can be tricky, but what happens when the psychologist IS the one getting problematic promptings like Hildebrant?<\/p>\n<p>I also recall an old post from Lynnette at Zelophehad\u2019s Daughters noting a session where the therapist gave the patients permission to be angry at God and Lynette writing in the post something like, \u201cIsn\u2019t it problematic for therapists to make such claims of religious authority?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Either way, I don\u2019t think such advice to seek therapy would have stopped Daybell\/Vallow, and again, Hildebrandt WAS the therapist. Lots of us I\u2019m sure are happy to have religion AND the mental health industry, but many religious people would balk at replacing religion with that profession.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.churchofjesuschrist.org\/study\/general-conference\/2022\/10\/14renlund?lang=eng\">Elder Renlund proposed<\/a> that the safe-guards to spiritual experience are the brethren themselves, citing DC 28:2. Elder Renlund gave an example of getting a call \u201cfrom an individual who had been arrested for trespassing,\u201d who told Elder Renlund, \u201cit had been revealed to him that additional scripture was buried under the ground floor of a building he tried to enter.\u201d Elder Renlund noted that the man\u2019s intention of finding new scripture for the church was outside the proper church structure, but the nature of the story also suggests the man acting in ways that most people would take as delusion whether church members or\u00a0 not. Just about everyone else on the planet would have been skeptical of the man\u2019s claims regardless of our church\u2019s structures around the nature of revelation.<\/p>\n<p>Likewise, all humans would advise Daybell not to kill his step-kids and Hildebrandt not to abuse Ruby Franke\u2019s kids. That is, I\u2019m not sure the church\u2019s structure of leadership over revelation would have had any more effect on stopping Daybell or Hildebrandt than general public opinion.<\/p>\n<p>Tim Ballard also claimed some revelatory pretensions and had enough connections with <a href=\"https:\/\/www.vice.com\/en\/article\/mormon-church-denounces-tim-ballards-morally-unacceptable-activities\/\">Elder M. Russell Ballard<\/a>. My point isn\u2019t to attack Mormonism or our leaders, but only to note the concerning mess these stories suggest. Listening to our leaders and therapists ARE generally good things, but I\u2019m not sure they are absolutely foolproof.<\/p>\n<p>Again, I do think that empirically those who made great sacrifices to follow the spirit have done overwhelmingly more good than harm in human history, but cases of harm do exist. I do see Mormonism as a wonderful community, but are Daybell, Hildebrandt, and Tim Ballard simply unfortunate side effects of our generally very good community?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>So I\u2019m thinking about this issue after having watched Netflix\u2019s documentary on Jodi Hildebrandt, \u201cEvil Influencer\u201d: what\u2019s up with Mormons doing criminal and immoral things under the belief they are inspired by God? Such acts, of course, are pretty rare, but at this point it\u2019s feeling a little disconcerting for it to appear that a seeming high percentage of such concerning cases happen among the Mormons.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":10406,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[53],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-52350","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-latter-day-saint-thought"],"jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/52350","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/10406"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=52350"}],"version-history":[{"count":4,"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/52350\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":52361,"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/52350\/revisions\/52361"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=52350"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=52350"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=52350"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}