{"id":47571,"date":"2024-07-14T11:20:25","date_gmt":"2024-07-14T17:20:25","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/?p=47571"},"modified":"2025-05-28T20:34:45","modified_gmt":"2025-05-29T02:34:45","slug":"to-live-in-utah-or-not-to-live-in-utah-the-grand-debate","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/2024\/07\/to-live-in-utah-or-not-to-live-in-utah-the-grand-debate\/","title":{"rendered":"To Live in Utah or not to Live in Utah? The Grand Debate"},"content":{"rendered":"

\"\"<\/p>\n

I asked Dalle-3 to “Create two images side-by-side, one representing Utah in a good light and one representing Utah in a bad light. Show me images that show bad things particular to Utah and good things particular to Utah, instead of just generic bad and good things.”\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n

In the image it generated “the left side highlights Utah’s natural beauty and outdoor activities, while the right side depicts issues like smog from the Salt Lake City inversion, a dried-up Great Salt Lake, and urban congestion.”<\/em><\/p>\n

For my family living in Utah is the eternal question (\u201cnext year in Utah\u201d). Like a lot of members, we have a lot of ties leading back to our homeland. For my children Utah is the land of milk and honey, a Willy Wonka-esque existence of eternal grandparent candy and attention, where the urinals flow with ambrosia and nobody ever raises their voice. They talk about \u201cthose East Coasters\u201d with a lilt of disdain despite the fact that they themselves are, in fact, born and raised East Coasters (kind of the flip side of those lifelong Utahns who say they\u2019re \u201cfrom\u201d the cool state they lived in for a few years as a kid while their parents were in graduate school). As of now we feel that we are where we need to be right now, but we\u2019ve thought through the pros and cons many times.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Con: Housing Affordability<\/b><\/p>\n

Dear Utahns, this is insane. You can\u2019t all be doctors, but apparently you are given how much you are willing to pay for houses. According to one report <\/span>Utah has the third most unaffordable housing market <\/span><\/a>relative to average income, behind only Hawaii and California. My inner Scrooge comes out with people who live in Utah and gripe about Utah and how wherever they came from is so much more sophisticated and cool. THEN LEAVE AND DECREASE THE SURPLUS POPULATION!<\/span><\/p>\n

However\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

Pro: YIMBY (\u201cYes in my Backyard”)<\/b><\/p>\n

Utah is good about allowing growth to meet the demand for housing. I live in the capital of NIMBY-ism where regulations are used to stop any kind of development, making blue collar workers commute multiple hours every day. Eventually I assume the stock of housing in Utah will increase to meet the demand, which is more than I can say for a lot of other areas in the US.\u00a0\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Pro: The Beautiful Mountains<\/b><\/p>\n

This one isn\u2019t much of a pro for me. Having been\u00a0 raised in Utah, I\u2019m kind of used to the mountains (although I’m surprised at how many lifelong Utahns haven’t been above timberline, which is a whole other kind of beauty altogether). And besides, every place has its beauty: the big skies and windswept plains of Kansas, the murals of Philadelphia, the bright natural green and salty air of the East Coast. I have trees in my backyard that are taller and more elegant than almost any of the trees in Utah. That’s not to dismiss the Utah scenery, but to laud the diverse beauties in our country.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Con: Judgment<\/b><\/p>\n

Old adages about Mormons being like manure (great when spread out, bad when concentrated in one place) aside, this one isn’t as big as it used to be. Objectively, Utah just isn’t as Latter-day Saint as it was, everybody has a family member who has left the Church, and people don’t have time for projects. In many ways the <\/span>sacred canopy of Utah Mormonism has been punctured<\/span><\/a>. Still, there is still something to the vibes you naturally get when there are a lot of people from one group concentrated in an area, it could hardly be otherwise even with the best of intentions. My wife pointed out that in non-Mormon Corridor land it’s easier for people that leave the Church to come back as if nothing happened: \u201cBrother Smith, we haven’t seen you in years! Can you substitute primary?\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

Con: Career Advancement<\/b><\/p>\n

Depending on the occupation, there may be career benefits to being closer to larger cities. While remote work is changing this to some extent, there are still particular jobs that just don’t exist in Utah.<\/span><\/p>\n

Pro: Efficient Government<\/b><\/p>\n

Utah provides a great bang for your tax buck. There are numerous clean parks, the schools are pretty good, and the traffic lights always work. Not to get political, but there are certain deep blue states with high taxes where libraries close early because people don’t show up for work, and my children were required to bring their own toilet paper to school. Driving from Southwest Colorado to Utah we were surprised at how quickly the ice disappeared from the road once we passed the \u201cWelcome to Utah\u201d sign.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Pro\/Con: Strong Church Programs<\/b><\/p>\n

This is a double edged sword. I\u2019ve spoken about this in-depth in <\/span>another post<\/span><\/a>; while it’s great to have a lot of direct support, so too are there advantages to your kids to having real, this-won\u2019t-get-done-without-you responsibilities early on.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Pro\/Con: Fellow Members for Kids to Hang out With<\/b><\/p>\n

This one is also ambiguous. Peer influence is real, and while it would be great to have a phalanx of strong member-friends, there are problems when those are the only people your kids interact with, and they don’t have as much of a chance for them to figure out their own discipleship on their own. Plus membership becomes less of a distinctive behavioral marker when everybody else is too. (the \u201cI can’t, I’m a Latter-day Saint\u201d line doesn’t work as much as in Utah). Ideological diversity, and not just racial diversity, is good<\/span><\/p>\n

Plus, as the father of soon-to-be eight sons, where their budding interests are vectored is important. I remember what it was like to be a hormonal heterosexual teenage male going to church, and let\u2019s be honest, a lot of male churchiness at that stage is to appeal to a certain kind of wholesome churchy female, and there is more of that for my kids in areas with more members.\u00a0 I want my kid’s hormones to be vectored in trying to improve themselves to appeal to said women, and not furry choking porn or whatever the kids these days are into.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Pro\/Con: Racial and Ethnic Diversity<\/b><\/p>\n

People often guffaw at Utah for not being diverse, and yes, it does not have a lot of Black people, but there are other racial and ethnic groups. I don’t ever think I’ve spoken to a non-Hawaiian Pacific Islander outside of Utah, and Utah has a vibrant Hispanic and refugee community, so pro\/con in the sense that it’s diverse and not diverse.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Pro: Missionary Work<\/b><\/p>\n

Member missionary work is much less awkward and more feasible in a non-Utah context. In Utah we assume (rightly or wrongly) that everyone has already been pitched, so it\u2019s hard to know what to do.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Pro: Food Scene<\/b><\/p>\n

This one has exploded since I left. Every other neighborhood there\u2019s some shiny new food establishment with a really creative take on this or that cuisine. Every time we visit Utah we gorge on the Mexican food that\u2019s lacking on the East Coast.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Pro: No Pests<\/b><\/p>\n

There isn\u2019t enough water here to support large populations of mice, cockroaches, or black mold, but it also isn\u2019t so much of a desert that you have to worry about waking up to scorpions on your driveway like our Arizona compatriots do.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Con: Dryness, Allergies<\/b><\/p>\n

I distinctly remember when, visiting Florida for the first time, I had the unique experience of breathing through my nose comfortably. Being raised with dryness and sage I just thought that uncomfortable sinuses were a part of life. For those of us whose ancestors evolved in cold, wet, cloudy northern Europe the bright, dry, sun and dust of Utah doesn\u2019t always sit so well with us.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Pro: Outdoor Activities<\/b><\/p>\n

When I first left Utah and was planning scout activities I remember being surprised that there weren\u2019t any rock climbing spots within hours of our Philadelphia ward. I was so clueless I thought everybody lived 30 minutes away from great rock climbing; sometimes we take the outdoors scene in Utah for granted.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Insular<\/b><\/p>\n

This is a classic Utah complaint, but I don\u2019t think this is really a thing anymore. The Internet has flattened the world and homogenized much of our culture.<\/span><\/p>\n

Pro: Free-Range Parenting<\/b><\/p>\n

In Utah people are more relaxed about letting kids be kids, whereas in some other places the minimum age for letting children play by themselves is ridiculously high.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Con: Pollution<\/b><\/p>\n

Inversions can be hard both psychologically and physically, especially for people with asthma.<\/p>\n

Con: Latter-day Saint Influencers<\/b><\/p>\n

In Utah there are a series of Latter-day Saint adjacent institutions that wield sociocultural influence in their own right: Deseret Book, this or that ex-Mo podcast, etc. It\u2019s kind of nice to just not care about this or that influencer and to let the Church just be your Church. <\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

I asked Dalle-3 to “Create two images side-by-side, one representing Utah in a good light and one representing Utah in a bad light. Show me images that show bad things particular to Utah and good things particular to Utah, instead of just generic bad and good things.”\u00a0 In the image it generated “the left side highlights Utah’s natural beauty and outdoor activities, while the right side depicts issues like smog from the Salt Lake City inversion, a dried-up Great Salt Lake, and urban congestion.” For my family living in Utah is the eternal question (\u201cnext year in Utah\u201d). Like a lot of members, we have a lot of ties leading back to our homeland. For my children Utah is the land of milk and honey, a Willy Wonka-esque existence of eternal grandparent candy and attention, where the urinals flow with ambrosia and nobody ever raises their voice. They talk about \u201cthose East Coasters\u201d with a lilt of disdain despite the fact that they themselves are, in fact, born and raised East Coasters (kind of the flip side of those lifelong Utahns who say they\u2019re \u201cfrom\u201d the cool state they lived in for a few years as a kid while their […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":10403,"featured_media":47574,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[54],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-47571","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-mormon-life"],"jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/07\/DALL\u00b7E-2024-07-14-11.13.46-Create-a-side-by-side-image.-On-the-left-side-show-Utah-in-a-good-light-with-iconic-scenes-such-as-the-Great-Salt-Lake-a-beautiful-view-of-Bryce-Can.webp","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/47571","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/10403"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=47571"}],"version-history":[{"count":10,"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/47571\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":50263,"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/47571\/revisions\/50263"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/47574"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=47571"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=47571"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=47571"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}