{"id":43803,"date":"2022-10-29T18:45:07","date_gmt":"2022-10-30T00:45:07","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/?p=43803"},"modified":"2025-05-28T07:31:46","modified_gmt":"2025-05-28T13:31:46","slug":"the-greatest-apostasy-since-kirtland-following-a-cohort-of-members-across-time","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/2022\/10\/the-greatest-apostasy-since-kirtland-following-a-cohort-of-members-across-time\/","title":{"rendered":"The Greatest Apostasy Since Kirtland? Following a Cohort of Members Across Time"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">For some years there have been rumors of a large-scale apostasy happening in the Church. These rumors are hard to test without insider information because most surveys have such small samples of Church members it\u2019s really a case of peering through the glass darkly.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I\u2019ve <a href=\"https:\/\/scholarsarchive.byu.edu\/cgi\/viewcontent.cgi?article=4911&amp;context=byusq\">been on record<\/a>\u00a0<\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">suggesting that in the long run the Church is treading water in terms of out-flows and in-flows (conversions versus people leaving). However, I also recognized that just comparing the number of ex-members to the members of converts at a point in time can obscure some more recent trends.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">I recently ran across the fact that the Cooperative Election Study has a sample of 136 members that they followed from 2010 to 2014. While this is a small sample size, it\u2019s one of the very few cases where we can follow a cohort of members measured by a third party to see how many are leaving or joining. (For our small-N, high level purposes here I\u2019m ignoring weights).\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">If you follow this group across 2012 and 2014, we find that:<\/span><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Between 2010 and 2014, 21 stopped identifying as members by 2014 (15%).<\/span><\/li>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Of the 11 people who left in 2012, two returned to the Church by 2014 (so an 82% ex-Mormon, two-year retention rate).\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0<\/span><\/li>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Between 2010 and 2012, four people joined the Church, but only two continued to identify as such in 2014 (so a 50% two-year, convert retention rate).\u00a0<\/span><\/li>\n<li style=\"font-weight: 400;\" aria-level=\"1\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In total, 10 converts joined the Church (or at least started identifying as members) in the sample between 2010 and 2014.\u00a0<\/span><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Again, and I can\u2019t stress this enough, very, very small sample sizes. However, if for fun we extrapolate this out to the rest of the Church, in-flows from conversions, while they do somewhat buffer the outflows, don&#8217;t nearly make-up for them (especially once you take retention into account), which means that in the United States any growth from having babies has to make up for out-flows. If these numbers are even close to being correct, the outflow from the Church is not insignificant.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Furthermore, as I\u2019ve pointed elsewhere, a lot of the growth in absolute numbers isn\u2019t even from people having babies now, but is an artifact of us <a href=\"https:\/\/www.timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/2021\/08\/is-the-church-replacing-itself-in-the-united-states-population-momentum-and-its-capacity-to-hide-decline\">having had lots of babies in the past<\/a><\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">. Therefore, if what we see here is even somewhat reflective of reality (and while the numbers are small it\u2019s frankly one of the best data sources we have outside the COB), this reiterates the point I\u2019ve made previously that we\u2019re running on the fumes of yesterday\u2019s baby booms, and that when that demographic momentum runs out the Church in the United States could enter a period of decline by any measure.\u00a0\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Taking my social science hat off and entering into more big picture, speculative territory, I recall a quote from President Eyring (how\u2019s that for a citation?) about ten years ago where he said that in the coming days the level of commitment that was previously required to stay in the gospel won\u2019t be enough, and I think we\u2019re seeing that here. I suspect that opportunity costs for membership in the Church have increased, leaving many people to search for other options that are better natural fits for them, which would suggest that the people who do stay are the ones for whom the Church is a better fit.\u00a0\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Of course, when people point out the Church\u2019s decline, there is often a subtext of \u201csee, that\u2019s why the brethren should do what I tell them of X,Y, Z.\u201d However, I bet we\u2019d see similar numbers if we look at other faith traditions. They\u2019re all hemorrhaging, even the liberal ones. Additionally, the Church was growing faster when it was objectively stricter (e.g. 3 hour church) and more sexually conservative. I\u2019m not saying we should go back to those days\u2013not my call\u2013but rather that people arguing that liberalization will help arrest the decline can\u2019t just point to a trend and claim that as evidence that their particular prescription works.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">This is a complicated issue, and when people suggest simple answers it feels like I\u2019m back in my days as a missionary when it seemed like I was the only one who was skeptical that bringing back Dan Jones-type numbers to Europe was simply a matter of more grit and faith. How to keep a Church robust in an era of declining interest in institutional religion is a difficult problem, and I don\u2019t envy those whose responsibility it is to try to solve it.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>R CODE:<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">LDS &lt;- read.dta13(&#8220;CCES_Panel_Full3waves_VV_V4.dta&#8221;, generate.factors=TRUE)<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">LDS$Mo_10&lt;-ifelse(LDS$religpew_10==&#8221;Mormon&#8221;, 1, 0)<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">LDS$Mo_12&lt;-ifelse(LDS$religpew_12==&#8221;Mormon&#8221;, 1, 0)<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">LDS$Mo_14&lt;-ifelse(LDS$religpew_14==&#8221;Mormon&#8221;, 1, 0)<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">LDS_CCS_conv&lt;-subset(LDS, ((religpew_14==&#8221;Mormon&#8221;) | (religpew_12==&#8221;Mormon&#8221;)) &amp; religpew_10!=&#8221;Mormon&#8221;)<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">LDS_CCS&lt;-subset(LDS, religpew_10==&#8221;Mormon&#8221;)<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">table(LDS_CCS$Mo_12, LDS_CCS$Mo_14)<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">table(LDS_CCS_conv$Mo_12, LDS_CCS_conv$Mo_14)<\/span><\/p>\n<p><br style=\"font-weight: 400;\" \/><br style=\"font-weight: 400;\" \/><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>For some years there have been rumors of a large-scale apostasy happening in the Church. These rumors are hard to test without insider information because most surveys have such small samples of Church members it\u2019s really a case of peering through the glass darkly.\u00a0 I\u2019ve been on record\u00a0suggesting that in the long run the Church is treading water in terms of out-flows and in-flows (conversions versus people leaving). However, I also recognized that just comparing the number of ex-members to the members of converts at a point in time can obscure some more recent trends.\u00a0 I recently ran across the fact that the Cooperative Election Study has a sample of 136 members that they followed from 2010 to 2014. While this is a small sample size, it\u2019s one of the very few cases where we can follow a cohort of members measured by a third party to see how many are leaving or joining. (For our small-N, high level purposes here I\u2019m ignoring weights).\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 If you follow this group across 2012 and 2014, we find that: Between 2010 and 2014, 21 stopped identifying as members by 2014 (15%). Of the 11 people who left in 2012, two returned to the [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":10403,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[34],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-43803","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-social-sciences-and-economics"],"jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/43803","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/10403"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=43803"}],"version-history":[{"count":4,"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/43803\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":50162,"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/43803\/revisions\/50162"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=43803"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=43803"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=43803"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}