{"id":18010,"date":"2011-12-09T06:45:32","date_gmt":"2011-12-09T11:45:32","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/?p=18010"},"modified":"2011-12-07T22:26:27","modified_gmt":"2011-12-08T03:26:27","slug":"interest-never-sleeps","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/2011\/12\/interest-never-sleeps\/","title":{"rendered":"Interest Never Sleeps"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Hypothetical:[fn1] Alex and Pat both want a Kindle Fire.[fn2] Alex goes to the local brick-and-mortar[fn3] Amazon store, pays $200 cash, and takes a Kindle Fire home. Pat goes to the bank, gets a loan for $200, goes to the local brick-and-mortar Amazon store, pays the $200, and takes a Kindle Fire home. Who made the better decision?[fn4]<\/p>\n<p>***<\/p>\n<p>In the Church, we&#8217;re suspicious of debt. Sure, we get a pass on student loans, a modest house, a first car, but, as a general rule, our leaders <a href=\"http:\/\/providentliving.org\/content\/display\/0,11666,6481-1-3331-10,00.html\">discourage<\/a> incurring consumer debt, and celebrate those who have escaped debt&#8217;s clutches. Having grown up a member of the Church, and having heard the various talks and lessons, I suspect most members would say that Alex made the better decision;Alex has the Fire and no debt. Pat, on the other hand, has both the Fire and the debt.<\/p>\n<p>***<\/p>\n<p>Assuming you agree with my intuition that, in general, Mormons would think that Alex made the better decision, I want to push that intuition a little:<\/p>\n<p>(1) Let&#8217;s suppose, first, that Alex bought with cash because he has $200 just lying around. Pat, on the other hand, doesn&#8217;t, and the only way she can afford a Kindle is by borrowing. But assume Pat has a steady, if low-paying, job with amazing job security, while Alex, though making more money,has a 70% chance of losing his job in the next three months, with an uncertain outlook for getting another job in the foreseeable future. Does that change your (Mormon) intuition?<\/p>\n<p>(2) Or what if Alex leaves all of his money in a checking account that doesn&#8217;t pay any interest, while Pat borrows at a low 3% rate, while she earns a 10% return on her money, which has all been wisely invested?[fn5]<\/p>\n<p>(3) Or what if Pat isn&#8217;t just paying a low interest rate, but no (or a negative) interest rate?<\/p>\n<p>***<\/p>\n<p>What I&#8217;m trying to get at is the underlying <em>why<\/em>\u00a0of our discomfort with debt. I understand for financial purposes why consumer debt is often a bad idea. Even in a (2) situation, most people don&#8217;t invest their unborrowed money; they just leave it in their checking accounts, so the fact that they <em>could<\/em>\u00a0earn a higher return in theory doesn&#8217;t mean anything in practice.<\/p>\n<p>And maybe our discomfort is purely a practical one, borne out of speculative investing in Kirtland and several generations of General Authorities who lived through the Depression.[fn6] But is there a religious explanation? Like we don&#8217;t like consumerism\/worldliness? (But didn&#8217;t both Alex and Pat buy a Kindle Fire?) We&#8217;re theologically opposed to risk? Interest (at least its payment) is spiritually harmful?<\/p>\n<p>***<\/p>\n<p>Even if the avoidance of consumer debt is purely a practical consideration, we can see better today why it&#8217;s a good idea than we&#8217;ve seen in 80 years or so. But I&#8217;m interested in your take on whether it might be something more.<\/p>\n<p>&#8212;<\/p>\n<p>[fn1] Note that it&#8217;s exam season, so I&#8217;m kind of in exam \u00a0mode. Oh, and good luck to all of the T&amp;S-reading students on your finals!<\/p>\n<p>[fn2] Actually, they both want an iPad, but it&#8217;s priced way out of their league, and they figure a Kindle Fire is <a href=\"http:\/\/www.slate.com\/articles\/technology\/technology\/2011\/11\/kindle_fire_review_amazon_s_new_tablet_isn_t_nearly_as_good_as_the_ipad_but_it_s_really_cheap.html\">good enough<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>[fn3] ;)<\/p>\n<p>[fn4] Yes, I&#8217;m asking you to judge Alex and Pat, without knowing their hearts or their genders. If it makes you feel any better, they&#8217;re fictional, anyway: this is just a thought experiment.<\/p>\n<p>[fn5] FWIW, Pres. Hinckley <a href=\"http:\/\/lds.org\/general-conference\/1998\/10\/to-the-boys-and-to-the-men?lang=eng\">wouldn&#8217;t have changed his mind<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>[fn6] It&#8217;s probably also worth noting that the Law prohibited charging <a href=\"http:\/\/lds.org\/scriptures\/ot\/lev\/25.36-37?lang=eng#35\">interest<\/a>. For those of you who know the Hebrew Bible better than I, was there any underlying reason that interest would be prohibited, or is it solely because God said?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Hypothetical:[fn1] Alex and Pat both want a Kindle Fire.[fn2] Alex goes to the local brick-and-mortar[fn3] Amazon store, pays $200 cash, and takes a Kindle Fire home. Pat goes to the bank, gets a loan for $200, goes to the local brick-and-mortar Amazon store, pays the $200, and takes a Kindle Fire home. Who made the better decision?[fn4] *** In the Church, we&#8217;re suspicious of debt. Sure, we get a pass on student loans, a modest house, a first car, but, as a general rule, our leaders discourage incurring consumer debt, and celebrate those who have escaped debt&#8217;s clutches. Having grown up a member of the Church, and having heard the various talks and lessons, I suspect most members would say that Alex made the better decision;Alex has the Fire and no debt. Pat, on the other hand, has both the Fire and the debt. *** Assuming you agree with my intuition that, in general, Mormons would think that Alex made the better decision, I want to push that intuition a little: (1) Let&#8217;s suppose, first, that Alex bought with cash because he has $200 just lying around. Pat, on the other hand, doesn&#8217;t, and the only way she can afford [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":138,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[56,18,53,34],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-18010","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-bloggernacle","category-general-doctrine","category-latter-day-saint-thought","category-social-sciences-and-economics"],"jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/18010","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/138"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=18010"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/18010\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":18014,"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/18010\/revisions\/18014"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=18010"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=18010"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=18010"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}