{"id":16854,"date":"2011-08-29T19:00:31","date_gmt":"2011-08-30T00:00:31","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/?p=16854"},"modified":"2011-08-29T11:48:42","modified_gmt":"2011-08-29T16:48:42","slug":"response-to-alison-part-ii","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/2011\/08\/response-to-alison-part-ii\/","title":{"rendered":"Response to Alison – part II"},"content":{"rendered":"

\"FamilyHere\u2019s a second post, responding to issues raised in Alison\u2019s Serving on the Sidelines<\/a>.<\/p>\n

Moses 6:59-60:<\/p>\n

That by reasons of transgression cometh the fall,<\/p>\n

which fall bringeth death,<\/p>\n

and inasmuch as ye were born into the world by water, and by blood, and by the spirit, which I have made,<\/p>\n

and so became of dust a living soul,<\/p>\n

even so ye must be born again into the kingdom of heaven,<\/p>\n

of water, and of the Spirit, and be cleansed by blood,<\/p>\n

even the blood of mine Only Begotten;<\/p>\n

that ye might be sanctified from all sin,<\/p>\n

and enjoy the words of eternal life in this world,<\/p>\n

and eternal life in the world to come,<\/p>\n

even immortal glory;<\/p>\n

for by the water ye keep the commandment;<\/p>\n

by the spirit ye are justified,<\/p>\n

and by the blood ye are sanctified.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

I love these verses. I love the visceral, embodied symbolism. I\u2019ve been personally moved and affected by the connection they make between the atonement and the two births that we undergo in this life \u2013 our physical, mortal birth and our rebirth into the kingdom of heaven. These verses are, I think, among the most theologically rich passages in all of our restoration scripture. I\u2019m even conservative and traditional enough to believe that these verses can help us understand the men-hold-the-priesthood dichotomy we\u2019ve maintained in this dispensation. I\u2019m convinced, however, that just as there is an edifying way to invoke them, there is also a pernicious way. Most often I see the latter. As was brought out in comments on Alison\u2019s post, there are those who feel that these verses articulate a divine ordering of women having babies while men hold and exercise the priesthood and lead the church. In addition to it\u2019s various odious implications, I think this interpretation goes clearly and perniciously beyond the content of the passage.<\/p>\n

Briefly: these verses apply to the two births \u2013 our mortal entrance into the world and our spiritual entrance into the Kingdom of God. That is, I think they can be insightfully read as shedding insight on how both women and men are involved in and carry out the work of atonement and sanctification as they participate in these two births. Note, however, that there is nowhere in these verses a gendering division of duties \u2013 no hard and fast declaration that women and only women are involved in the first birth, while men and only men are involved in the second. We read gender roles into these verses for the obvious reason that women physically deliver babies. I\u2019ll discuss below, however, why even this thin interpolation is problematic, and why I think the lack of gender here ought to keep us from inserting such gender ordering, either in our interpretation of the scriptures or in how we carry these things out in our practical lives. When we go beyond what\u2019s actually in the text, we often go very quickly from a beautiful, proportionate interdependence between men and women and the opportunities they have to concretely administer the grace of salvation, to a very disproportionate and even incoherent (or at least very problematic) set of metaphors with very little grounding in what actually happens in our lives. They do not explain why in addition to performing baptisms, men\u2019s priesthood performs all other ordinances, presides over all church councils, functions and activities, and justifies sovereign councils that in principle require no input from women. That\u2019s the pernicious part \u2013 when we read these verses as if they do<\/em> explain this lack of practical and spiritual balance.<\/p>\n

One thing that has made these verses so moving in my life has been, of course, the way reality and the symbols articulated in these verses have mutually informed one another and led to spiritual enlightenment. This is where my very vague and abstract sentences demand a bit of illustration. But that\u2019s the difficult part, especially since I don\u2019t know how to articulate the sacredness of my experiences or my understanding, and am particularly conscious of the way that trying to do so might well alienate or otherwise cause hard feelings for those whose experiences have (perhaps necessarily, perhaps because of choice) been very different than my own. Let me preface what follows, then, by emphasizing that I\u2019m attempting to articulate my own experiences and the insights they\u2019ve brought, not dictate or judge others\u2019 experiences.<\/p>\n

My wife and I have (mostly) home birthed<\/a>, with midwives. Beyond that, I have been the one to deliver three of our four children (and helped deliver the fourth). All of the preparation that goes into a home birth, together with the physical training and preparation that my wife does, leads to a very connected and aware sort of delivery. The natural pain and euphoria of birth has been extremely meaningful to her and yielded an instant bond between her and the infant \u2013 one that I\u2019m not really competent to describe.<\/p>\n

In what I\u2019ve now said I probably already risk alienating others or giving the misperception of a superiority complex that\u2019s often associated with natural birthing. I don\u2019t want to do that. With that repetitive caveat, however, I\u2019ll move on to my own experience.<\/p>\n

My hands literally shake as I remember with vivid clarity the birth of my children. I believe it\u2019s true that my wife presides over and administers the first birth \u2013 the mortal birth. But in wonderful, celestial unity I helped conceive the children. Additionally, I read all the parenting and birthing books with her, I attended all the classes with her, and throughout labor we labored together. Note: I don\u2019t mean to attribute any equivalency to our joint labors here, I only want to emphasize that they were just that: joint. Finally, my hands were soaked in water and blood as they caught the new spirit and life that passed from my wife\u2019s body and into my arms. This act \u2013 more than any other act I\u2019ve participated in \u2013 united my soul with my earthly and heavenly family. These births have been the most cherished and sacred of my mortal experiences.<\/p>\n

Consequently, I\u2019m reticent to share it here. But I think it illustrates the way in which Moses 6:59-60 ought to be interpreted. It\u2019s simply not the case that a woman\u2019s presiding over and administering the first birth means that her husband doesn\u2019t participate. Dramatically highlighting this point is the fact that in the country where we now live, not only am I forbidden to participate in this way, I wouldn\u2019t even be allowed into the room during this sacred event. I assure you \u2013 THIS IS AN INJUSTICE<\/em>. So much so, that it has a direct impact on our discussions concerning whether to have children in the immediate future. And it\u2019s not just me that feels robbed. My wife doesn\u2019t appreciate the idea of birthing without me any better.<\/p>\n

It\u2019s analogous to someone interpreting the Proclamation on the Family to mean that I had no business being involved in the nurturing of my children. Thankfully, I\u2019ve never heard anyone so misinterpret this prophetic counsel. (I have, on the other hand, quite often heard the reverse: that the Proclamation tells me why my wife has no business being involved in providing for our family\u2019s temporal needs \u2013 but that\u2019s another post altogether).<\/p>\n

I think all of this helps to illuminate the way in which ideally, fathers and mothers ought to jointly midwife the second birth of their children, and to the possibility of ways in which men and women generally can be involved in carrying out this holy ordinance. I have no desire to preside over and administer our children\u2019s baptisms in the absence of my wife. To me, it\u2019s an injustice. I\u2019m not proposing a specific agenda or outline of how the joint (if asymmetrical) participation ought to take place. But my entire soul believes that the union I underwent with my wife in marriage, while it didn\u2019t abolish separate things that we each do or have primary responsibility over, did abolish our individual independence \u2013 and I feel the \u201cfire pent up in my bones,\u201d and a desire to shout hallelujah every time I reflect on and experience this fact. What\u2019s more, I don\u2019t believe that my wife\u2019s participation in the ordinances I administer ought to be limited to symbolic or before\/after sorts of participation \u2013 any more than my participation in conception and physical birth is merely symbolic or limited to a before\/after participation. What has enriched and ennobled our experiences and our souls more than anything else has been the ways in which we\u2019ve been able to unite in order to bear the fruits of divinity.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Here\u2019s a second post, responding to issues raised in Alison\u2019s Serving on the Sidelines. Moses 6:59-60: That by reasons of transgression cometh the fall, which fall bringeth death, and inasmuch as ye were born into the world by water, and by blood, and by the spirit, which I have made, and so became of dust a living soul, even so ye must be born again into the kingdom of heaven, of water, and of the Spirit, and be cleansed by blood, even the blood of mine Only Begotten; that ye might be sanctified from all sin, and enjoy the words of eternal life in this world, and eternal life in the world to come, even immortal glory; for by the water ye keep the commandment; by the spirit ye are justified, and by the blood ye are sanctified. I love these verses. I love the visceral, embodied symbolism. I\u2019ve been personally moved and affected by the connection they make between the atonement and the two births that we undergo in this life \u2013 our physical, mortal birth and our rebirth into the kingdom of heaven. These verses are, I think, among the most theologically rich passages in all of our […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":122,"featured_media":16858,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-16854","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-corn"],"jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/Family-after-Ewa-Nuhrs-birth.jpg","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/16854","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/122"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=16854"}],"version-history":[{"count":6,"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/16854\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":16856,"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/16854\/revisions\/16856"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/16858"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=16854"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=16854"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/timesandseasons.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=16854"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}