Comments on: A note on my Reading Nephi series and scriptural interpretation generally https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/11/a-note-on-my-reading-nephi-series-and-scriptural-interpretation-generally/ Truth Will Prevail Sun, 05 Aug 2018 23:56:25 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.9.8 By: Jerry Schmidt https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/11/a-note-on-my-reading-nephi-series-and-scriptural-interpretation-generally/#comment-543195 Tue, 19 Dec 2017 17:05:11 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=37347#comment-543195 Careful readings of the scriptures, I think, are assumed by the authors of the narratives within the scriptures. The authors in the Book of Mormon break through the “fourth wall,” to borrow a theatrical term, and speak directly to the reader/audience frequently. I suspect this is due to an otherwise oral tradition of communicating such narratives, where the speaker is in font of a live audience/congregation. This has been mentioned in previous dialogues regarding chapters from the B of M up to this chapter.

How else would one “liken [the scriptures] unto us” if we were not expected to try on the narrative, wear it, imagine how we would act and react?

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By: jstricklan https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/11/a-note-on-my-reading-nephi-series-and-scriptural-interpretation-generally/#comment-543136 Sat, 09 Dec 2017 13:23:28 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=37347#comment-543136 James, this was wonderfully expressed:

“Like everyone else, I’m reading and writing here in a given context, with a background ethic and various personal commitments (which I consider to be faithful). That ethic includes a belief that—whatever Nephi’s designs—God intends for me to plumb the full depths of the record and not merely repeat ad nauseum a traditional, superficial, catechism. I’m moved by Thomas S. Monson’s final General Conference plea, which does not tell us to continually read the Book of Mormon, but to study it [FN2]. I can’t imagine doing so productively outside of bringing all of my might, mind, and strength to the reading. This includes my educational background and tools and personal experiences.”

Thank you for that. I have always felt this way about scripture, although my ability to study it in this way has developed considerably since I was young. In any event, I’ve probably never quite expressed it as cogently as you did here, and I appreciate your efforts thinking on the matter enough to produce this very cogent piece of language. It’s going into my quote file. :)

I wondered if you might some time develop this distinction: “I do think that reading Nephi as a prophet is different than reading while withholding judgment on his prophethood.” I found it odd, which I am finding through experience probably means that I am odd. Why do you think this is different? I really don’t see the difference, particularly since Nephi is busy preaching among the dead and is not setting current policy, for example. Of all scriptural authors, I approach Nephi as an individual, a friend, perhaps because he writes so personally. Whatever insights he was able to glean in his mortal sojourn he has left for us, I feel, must be understood as a message from a wise friend who’s been around the block a time or two. (But then, I view all prophets that way.)

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By: Clark Goble https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/11/a-note-on-my-reading-nephi-series-and-scriptural-interpretation-generally/#comment-543075 Wed, 22 Nov 2017 03:46:27 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=37347#comment-543075 Why not? It seems a careful reading requires paying attention to such things. Also it’s less judgments about accuracy than judgments of the range of possibilities of accuracy and their likelihood.

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By: ji https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/11/a-note-on-my-reading-nephi-series-and-scriptural-interpretation-generally/#comment-543069 Sat, 18 Nov 2017 21:00:01 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=37347#comment-543069 A reading loaded with suspicion and making judgments about accuracy is not a caeful reading.

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By: Clark Goble https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/11/a-note-on-my-reading-nephi-series-and-scriptural-interpretation-generally/#comment-543046 Thu, 16 Nov 2017 16:29:05 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=37347#comment-543046 Even careful readings are speculative because the narrator you are reading is not infallible. Thus you are speculating about what one should or shouldn’t be suspicious about and where they are accurate. It helps if you have multiple accounts by people with very disparate views but even then there’s a strong speculative element. This is just inherent to hermeneutics and is unavoidable.

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By: ji https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/11/a-note-on-my-reading-nephi-series-and-scriptural-interpretation-generally/#comment-543042 Thu, 16 Nov 2017 00:05:08 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=37347#comment-543042 A careful reading need not be speculative at all. Indeed, a careful reading should separate the what-is-actually-written from what-I-thought-was-there from what-I-read-into-it.

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By: Clark https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/11/a-note-on-my-reading-nephi-series-and-scriptural-interpretation-generally/#comment-543038 Wed, 15 Nov 2017 16:01:21 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=37347#comment-543038 But JI, every reading is speculative. Just because it’s a different set of speculations than you’re used to doesn’t mean we get to label one speculative and one not. That’s the point.

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By: ji https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/11/a-note-on-my-reading-nephi-series-and-scriptural-interpretation-generally/#comment-543037 Wed, 15 Nov 2017 04:12:27 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=37347#comment-543037 Clark,

I’m all in favor of careful readings that bring to light what might be otherwise be passed over — and I’m all in favor of careful readings that consider learnings from other sources. But I am concerned about readings (and reconstructions) that invent new narrative or encourage speculations or distractions — or raising questions for the sake of raising questions. And again, my concern exists on both sides, those that do it to weaken faith and those that do it to strengthen or supplement faith.

I know others do it, and I don’t want to ban them — to each his or her own — but we’re talking about different approaches, and I thought I would share my thoughts.

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By: ji https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/11/a-note-on-my-reading-nephi-series-and-scriptural-interpretation-generally/#comment-543036 Wed, 15 Nov 2017 04:00:30 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=37347#comment-543036 Brian, you might be right…

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By: Clark https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/11/a-note-on-my-reading-nephi-series-and-scriptural-interpretation-generally/#comment-543035 Tue, 14 Nov 2017 22:00:45 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=37347#comment-543035 JI, I agree that one can’t deconstruct without doing some sort of reconstruction. Ideally what you’re looking for with a deconstruction reading is what is marginalized yet there in the text in some way. That is you bring to light what is passed over and forgotten.

I’d say there are always multiple ways to read the text and what these sorts of readings ought do is raise questions. It’s rather rare they can answer them nor are they the only way to read the text.

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By: Brian https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/11/a-note-on-my-reading-nephi-series-and-scriptural-interpretation-generally/#comment-543032 Tue, 14 Nov 2017 01:51:00 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=37347#comment-543032 Ji, I believe you are mistaken that Mormon abridged the text in question. He abridged other parts, but not the first few books, as we learn from Words of Mormon. Different plates.

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By: Jerry Schmidt https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/11/a-note-on-my-reading-nephi-series-and-scriptural-interpretation-generally/#comment-543030 Mon, 13 Nov 2017 20:25:23 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=37347#comment-543030 The Book of Mormon is a narrative, a text, and like any text its reconstruction can be as personally revelatory as its deconstruction. I see the need for two or more witnesses as fully cognizant of the subjectivity of each witness. In the reconstruction of the overall event each witness will provide an angle that when combined with the others will give an approximation that comes closest to the actual event.

Seeing Nephi as bitter is valid. Seeing Nephi as loyal is valid. Seeing Laman as willfully ignorant is valid. Seeing Laman as trying to do what he sees is just is valid. Humans are this complex, and to effectively liken the scriptures unto us, we need to see humans that resemble us, complex, inconsistent, simultaneously sympathetic and unsympathetic.

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By: ji https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/11/a-note-on-my-reading-nephi-series-and-scriptural-interpretation-generally/#comment-543029 Mon, 13 Nov 2017 18:27:48 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=37347#comment-543029 I applaud your efforts, but still advise caution. For example, you note that Nephi’s stories involving Laman and Lemuel always paint them in a bad light — and then, you allow only two possibilities for this — thus, you risk going beyond merely deconstructing and actually reconstructing (even implicitly). Are there not other possibilities? Here’s one: Nephi’s record extolled Laman’s and Lemuel’s virtues, but Mormon’s abridgement washed it out (the Book of Mormon is an abridgement, and something was left out). That possibility would wholly undo your reconstruction. So I don’t mind deconstructing, but I am concerned about reconstructing. Nephi glories in plainness — I do, too. Can you deconstruct without explicitly or implicitly reconstructing? The fact is, we simply don’t know why there is little favorable mention of Laman and Lemuel.

You might not be one of those who portrays Nephi as an unrighteous younger brother, but those who do will eagerly seize your narrative for their work of undermining faith. So even when the deconstructing is done by faithful people, I am still concerned for this reason (and because of the implicit reconstruction that almost always occurs, almost always with a sophisticated purpose of undermining faith). By the way, I am also troubled when people reconstruct in efforts to build faith — I’m equal opportunity when in comes in resisting those who add to the record based on their own suppositions.

All that said, I agree that there is little favorable treatment of Laman and Lemuel in the record.

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By: Jerry Schmidt https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/11/a-note-on-my-reading-nephi-series-and-scriptural-interpretation-generally/#comment-543027 Mon, 13 Nov 2017 17:10:00 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=37347#comment-543027 James Olsen, I apologize if I have inferred any lack of faith on your part in my comments. I deconstruct the Book of Mormon as I do any text, except, I have a personal faith stake in my deconstruction of this text, as well as personal relationship stakes, as you can understand. I’m a big boy now, and I can handle a differing pov without assuming it has hostile intent.

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