Comments on: Some Brief Thoughts On Columbus Day

By: Jerry Schmidt

Jerry Schmidt — Sun, 29 Oct 2017 20:30:39 +0000

I believe that Columbus’ voyage and arrival to North America, or close anyway, is necessarily a complex knot to untangle for anyone raised in North America. We all had a stake in what occurred and how the overall situation turned out. I watched my spouse cry bitter tears for at least an hour after watching the movie “Dances With Wolves” as generational guilt washed over her like an ocean tide.

For probably obvious reasons, I loved her so much at that point of her vulnerability, and dismissing her feelings of mourning felt wrong, just wrong. I did not feel that same tide of guilt, but I knew it was real for her. I recognize that my non-LDS pioneer ancestors benefitted at least indirectly from the displacement of native peoples, and as much as I think I can expect reasonably of myself as a white man, I own that truth.

Personally, I do think it’s time to let go of this particular holiday, as it seems consistent with my personal belief that at least the US can let go of the visual vestiges of its involvement in the slave trade of captured Africans. While I can appreciate the arguments in favor of keeping these vestiges, I cannot support keeping them. Peace y’all.

By: Clark Goble

Clark Goble — Mon, 16 Oct 2017 19:24:59 +0000

Yeah, putting on the moderating hat Ted, I’d ask you make things a bit less personal. We can disagree without being so disagreeable.

By: ji

ji — Mon, 16 Oct 2017 17:47:05 +0000

I thought only charitable comments were welcome here?

By: Ted B

Ted B — Mon, 16 Oct 2017 15:52:35 +0000

Wow, so you’re comparing your views to Rosa Parks? You have some nerve. While people aren’t inherently superior to each other because of their skin color, one view is more reasonable than the other because of evidence. Guess what, alt-right white supremacist blogger Wife With a Purpose also makes her claims that the white culture is inherently superior because of certain verses in the Book of Mormon and quotes from past LDS church leaders. You’re no better than her. Your views have been destroyed on this thread. Each comment you make you only embarrass yourself more. And you claim to be a victim like unto Rosa Parks because someone disagrees with you? You’re a weak, pathetic embarrassment whose moral compass is completely backwards. Columbus Day should be Taino memorial day.

By: Clark Goble

Clark Goble — Mon, 16 Oct 2017 15:32:59 +0000

Other Clark, just to repeat my earlier point, one can be led of God without necessarily being a good person. Of course the classic scriptural example is Cyrus the Great, but he actually did provide a ton of innovations in human rights. Unlike Columbus who just seemed focused on exploitation with little concern for ethics.

By: The Other Clark

The Other Clark — Mon, 16 Oct 2017 15:10:48 +0000

Religious convictions are not second-class convictions, and I refuse to be forced to the back of the proverbial bus simply because the color of my views is different than others.. To disallow my opinion, simply because it is informed by my religious views is the worst form of intolerance. Be gone, Ted B.

By: Ted B

Ted B — Mon, 16 Oct 2017 14:08:41 +0000

Well, I was right about The Other Clark. His celebration of Columbus is informed by religious tradition and not reason. This continues to cloud his moral interpretation of the past as it did earlier LDS church leaders.

By: Brian

Brian — Sun, 15 Oct 2017 19:12:33 +0000

There were people who weren’t terrible to natives. Some people follow the light of Christ, despite the cultural mores of the time. Like Bartolomé de las Casas, for instance. Columbus didn’t have to do terrible things. He could have explored and then done good things. Some people just can’t imagine other possibilities. That’s why it’s important to study history and see examples that weren’t like Columbus and also see the damage Columbus did. Debates are important. White-washing “but he was inspired” comments do little in the real world, that I see. Good for him. Bad for him. He was a person. Lots of people are inspired. The thing here is to learn, gave empathy, feel God’s love and extend it. Americans, by nature, tend to be nationalistic–which is easy to see in their insistance on how great Columbus was without being troubled over his foibles, because, you know, America!

By: ji

ji — Sun, 15 Oct 2017 16:21:41 +0000

Every discovery brings a lot of unintended consequences — but still, thank goodness for discoveries! By the way, we can have a Columbus Day holiday without venerating Columbus.

I’m glad he came. He deserves credit for being very bold, even though he miscalculated in thinking of reaching the East Indies. Taking a day off on Columbus Day need not be seen as being unkind to the aboriginal population.

By: rogerdhansen

rogerdhansen — Sun, 15 Oct 2017 12:25:40 +0000

It’s not self-loathing, it’s the realization that Columbus’s “discovery” brought with it a lot of unintended consequences. We need to acknowledge those dreadful consequences when we venerate Columbus. Ignoring history is counterproductive and shortsighted.

When it comes to Native Americans, Mormons has a lot to repent for.

By: ji

ji — Sun, 15 Oct 2017 04:33:18 +0000

I’m fine with Columbus Day. There is nothing wrong with exploration. Columbus was an explorer, seeking a shortcut to the spice trade. God moves in mysterious ways.

I’m glad he came. I regret all instances of suffering and sin, but I’m glad he came. No doubt, another European would have eventually come, and with the same general outcome. There is no reason for self-loathing among Americans of European ancestry.

By: Brian

Brian — Sat, 14 Oct 2017 22:32:54 +0000

It does not follow that after inspiration towards one act, that all actions afterwards are also inspired.

By: The Other Clark

The Other Clark — Sat, 14 Oct 2017 17:00:18 +0000

Some Mormons may see no need to make the claim that Columbus was inspired. However, the prophets are unanimous in saying that he was. Starting with Nephi, and on to Orson Hyde and Brigham Young, even Wilford Woodruff doing his work in the St. George Temple; they all affirmed that Columbus was inspired. While most of the founders were ordained Elders, Columbus was one of a handful ordained a high priest. Heck, Columbus himself said he was inspired of God. All of these statements were made way before the Italian American voting bloc became significant.

The pattern of LDS prophets affirming Columbus being led of God continued the full length of the 20th Century, Mark E Peterson and Ezra Taft Benson being the most obvious, but the list includes everyone from Joseph F. Smith and Heber J Grant to L. Tom Perry and Spencer W. Kimball. When the 500th anniversary of the discovery rolled around, all the Church magazines included lengthy articles arguing against the demonization of Columbus.

FTR, one of those articles was written by Pres. Hinckley’s son (not brother). It includes the question, “So why did Nephi single out Columbus? Perhaps it was because no other single individual would have such an impact on preparing the world for the Restoration.”

As Mormons we ought to celebrate Columbus MORE than the world at large, not less. Just one more way to be a peculiar people!

By: rogerdhansen

rogerdhansen — Sat, 14 Oct 2017 12:06:52 +0000

The issue for Mormons here is whether Columbus was inspired of God to take on his explorations. I personally don’t see any need to make this claim. Columbus has too much baggage.

I believe that Prez. Hinkley’s brother wrote a book about Columbus and tried to canonize him. This I strongly disagree with.

As for the holiday, I vote for a Native American day instead.

By: Clark Goble

Clark Goble — Fri, 13 Oct 2017 00:49:20 +0000

Jader, I don’t think “the natives were just as bad” justifies much. After all we don’t have a holiday for Aztec human sacrifice. I do think things are a bit more complicated than they seem but then I’m not one to really elevate people for holidays beyond Christmas and Easter. I prefer holidays that target ideas. So no Victoria Day. No Columbus Day. No Martin Luther King Day. No President Day. I wish we had instead maybe a Democracy Day, Civil Rights Day, Immigrant Day, and I’m not sure what to do with Queen Victoria. But then Americans don’t have to worry about that one.