Comments on: Future Mormon Reading Chapter 2 https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/07/future-mormon-reading-chapter-2/ Truth Will Prevail Sun, 05 Aug 2018 23:56:25 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.9.8 By: Clark Goble https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/07/future-mormon-reading-chapter-2/#comment-542042 Sun, 09 Jul 2017 16:48:13 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36898#comment-542042 The standard interpretation is tha Lehi was part of the anti-Josiah reform movement. There’s been long speculation that the Judaism of the norther tribes, with which Lehi was associated, was slightly different. Often this gets seen in terms of the Deuteronomist tradition by many scholars. Kevin Barney and a few others have written a fair bit on this. A lot of it is speculative but the main differences are that D wants the cultic practices centralized with the priests at the Jerusalem temple. A lot of people think the book of Deuteronomy actually gets formed in this era and that the missing text found around this time might actually be the creation of a prototype of that book. This centralization caused a lot of turmoil, especially for those outside of Jerusalem who now had to come to Jerusalem for their sacrifices.

There are other differences, such as the removal of the divine feminine is Jewish religion. People have noted that especially in Nephi’s vision that aspect of God is still present. (You also find it in later works such as the personification of wisdom in some poems)

Edit: I touch on some of that in this post from last year
http://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/07/what-was-the-nephite-law-of-moses/

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By: Carey https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/07/future-mormon-reading-chapter-2/#comment-542040 Sat, 08 Jul 2017 19:18:45 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36898#comment-542040 Clark,

If Adam’s speculation is correct and Lehi was in fact worshipping at an alter outside of Jerusalem what kind of historical / theological ramifications would that have given the time period? What might say about the kind of religious practices Lehi was involved in? While not exactly pertinent to Adam’s thesis in this chapter I find this particular observation fascinating.

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By: Clark Goble https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/07/future-mormon-reading-chapter-2/#comment-542038 Sat, 08 Jul 2017 02:14:21 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36898#comment-542038 Robert, I certainly don’t dislike it. As I said I think Adam got at a point about mediation that’s neglected and very important. I just didn’t think it was as strong as many of the other chapters. My complaint was that at the end of each section he kind of tried to push the point of that section a bit further than really fit. So it comes off trying to expand a narrow point to a broad point in a way that feels forced. That’s particularly true with the first section (which again was my favorite part). Had he left out the idea of you sacrifice willingly and get fire as revelation or sacrifice unwillingly and get fire like Sodom I’d probably have liked it much more.

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By: Robert C. https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/07/future-mormon-reading-chapter-2/#comment-542037 Sat, 08 Jul 2017 00:37:59 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36898#comment-542037 I think I liked this chapter a lot more than you, Clark. I think I’m much more analytically inclined than Adam, and I tend to gravitate toward more systematic analysis of concepts, ideas, texts, etc. So, to be sure, I sometimes find myself getting kind of frustrated and impatient with Adam’s work, feeling that it’s more poetic, clever, and eloquent than insightful in an analytic sense. But I think this chapter is one of Adam’s better ones because I think the style of his writing nicely coheres and reinforces the point that he’s making.

That is, I see him addressing a theme that is inherently implicit and oblique. Reading scripture in a thoughtful and questioning way, in the manner that he is emulating, is itself a kind of typological enactment of what Lehi is doing–a kind of journey that is not so much about the destination (i.e., “the wilderness”) but about the purification process along the way (i.e., getting distance from one’s daily life and concerns in order to reflect, ponder, and pray).

So, Adam is showing or exemplifying this pattern through this essay, asking questions of a text that itself requires us to go on a kind of hermeneutic, theologically reflective journey in order to answer the natural kinds of questions he’s posing about the text.

I also think his interpretation of the therefores and nevertheless is a nice and interesting insight that corroborates his musings.

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By: Clark Goble https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/07/future-mormon-reading-chapter-2/#comment-542035 Fri, 07 Jul 2017 18:53:58 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36898#comment-542035 This chapter is a little out of place in some ways. There are elements related to grace, but really they seems somewhat forced. (That may partially account for the far fewer comments) Yet in some sense to explain grace has to take up the question of ordinances including Old Testament ones.

Still I really liked the points about the sacrifice type scene. I also really think Adam’s pointed incisively at an issue of mediation within Mormon theology. That in turn might be tied to what we could call the divine hiddenness problem. Why does God give his word through such flawed vehicles. (I recall Moroni complaining about this point in Ether 12) The fact that Lehi gets pointed to a book really does highlight a significant part of our relationship with God and the grace he gives us. In that sense grace is intrinsically mediated and flawed yet simultaneously undeniably from God. Adam’s reading of that scene with Lehi is spot on in that sense.

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By: John Lundwall https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/07/future-mormon-reading-chapter-2/#comment-542034 Fri, 07 Jul 2017 17:13:05 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36898#comment-542034 I found this fascinating. Again I am little confused as to how this relates to Adam’s concept of grace, and it is clear now that I just have to read Adam’s book. But I am enjoying your review and commentary Clark, keep up the good work.

This all brought up an interesting passage I have been musing over lately, and I would love your thoughts on it. In Moses 6:4-7 we read:

4 And then began these men to call upon the name of the Lord, and the Lord blessed them; 5 And a book of remembrance was kept, in the which was recorded, in the language of Adam, for it was given unto as many as called upon God to write by the spirit of inspiration; 6 And by them their children were taught to read and write, having a language which was pure and undefiled. 7 Now this same Priesthood, which was in the beginning, shall be in the end of the world also.

After reading it several times it seems to me that the explanatory clause “Now this same Priesthood” refers to the previous subject clause “a language which was pure and undefiled,” i.e. the language of Adam. This language was recorded in a book of remembrance. As I read it, the language of Adam is a priesthood. This brings up several interpretive issues worth exploring about priesthood, language, and writing; noting also that for most of human history the “book of remembrance” was actually the rituals, narrative templates, and cosmologies of the oral cult–priesthoods indeed.

Thought?

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