Comments on: Uncomfortable Charity https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/uncomfortable-charity/ Truth Will Prevail Sun, 05 Aug 2018 23:56:25 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.9.8 By: kristine N https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/uncomfortable-charity/#comment-541727 Thu, 15 Jun 2017 02:31:57 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36710#comment-541727 Thank you, Rachel, for sharing this experience. It was touching and lovely.

I grew up in Salt Lake and later lived in Pasadena and in San Diego. Now I live in Adelaide, Australia. I don’t know what it’s like in other major cities in Australia, and I hear there is more begging elsewhere, but here there are very few panhandlers. Plenty of buskers (street musicians who often put out a jar for donations) but not much actual begging. This is also a country with a fairly strong social safety net. I can’t help but think that the two facts–the relatively low numbers of panhandlers and significant financial assistance for the poor–are connected.

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By: asdf asdf https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/uncomfortable-charity/#comment-541711 Wed, 14 Jun 2017 15:44:22 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36710#comment-541711 Indeed old man…
” I think we have a moral responsibility to make sure that our charity is actually effective and not destructive. There is a person in my ward who actually impersonates a homeless ”
I would welcome the liberal response if we changed the person begging for money to the person begging for ammo…
Sure it would make them feel better to have someone give them a gift… But if they use that ammo to go shoot a republican congressman I would feel guilty if I had given them the ammo…

Why does the moral obligation to away when they do something that only harms themselves…? Facilitating a crime is still immoral.

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By: Old Man https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/uncomfortable-charity/#comment-541708 Tue, 13 Jun 2017 15:53:45 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36710#comment-541708 I think we have a moral responsibility to make sure that our charity is actually effective and not destructive. There is a person in my ward who actually impersonates a homeless person in Salt Lake City to raise cash. He refuses to work and is continually going to the Bishop to get more money. The last Bishop would not give him welfare unless he held a calling. He performs his calling every Sunday and walks out as soon as that calling is completed. Another ward member was a meth addict and was manufacturing meth with her son from common household chemicals partly secured through church welfare.

If we want to be part of solutions for people’s troubled lives, we should to charitably invest in programs and real expertise which could help deal with the seriousness of the problems people face. Handing money out to panhandlers does not do that.

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By: A Turtle Named Mack https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/uncomfortable-charity/#comment-541706 Mon, 12 Jun 2017 17:43:44 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36710#comment-541706 We encounter panhandlers on a daily basis where we live. I have embraced all of the above reasons for giving, or for not giving, at various times. However, one day my young daughter was with me when we walked past a man who was asking for money. She asked why I didn’t give any money to him, because he seemed to need it and she knew I had some in my pocket. Intent on helping her to understand the nuances of giving, and the complexities of the various situations of those we repeatedly encounter on the street, I trotted out versions of these many reasons. Before long, it became clear that those reasons didn’t resonate with her, and didn’t really satisfy her desire to help others. I decided that if my explanations for not giving were so nuanced that an 8 year-old couldn’t understand them, they were simply too nuanced to be valid. I gave her a dollar, and she passed it along. Since then, we both make sure there are always a couple of dollars available to be passed along. She carries a small supply, and I replenish it when it gets low. Sometimes, now, she replenishes the stash with her own money. Those dollars aren’t missed, and each time I see her pass one along, I feel proud that she cares, and am reminded of the guilt I felt that day in trying to justify my inaction. It’s only a dollar, and it may be more symbolic that it is practical, but it reminds me to not over-think charity.

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By: Clark Goble https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/uncomfortable-charity/#comment-541703 Mon, 12 Jun 2017 16:10:42 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36710#comment-541703 A recent EconTalk on homelessness in cities is perhaps worth reading. They have transcripts if you prefer not to listen to a podcast. He gets the issue I think Rachel is touching upon that it seems right to give to people even if it isn’t solving the problem. To quote:

I feel good about it, not because I think I’m doing the right thing. I feel good about because I think I’m helping them. Now, I could be wrong. I might not actually be helping them. I might be making their situation worse. I might be discouraging them from choosing some other option. Right? I might be discouraging them from going to a more formal system of help. But my view is that the people I’m giving money to, the more tragic-looking ones–they either seem uneasy about having an interaction with, say, a non-profit or a government agency. And their lives are miserable. I feel bad for them. And I’m trying to do a very small amount to make their lives a little more pleasant.

The question then becomes whether doing this is perpetuating the problem rather than solving it. There is a strong case to be made that it perpetuates drug use, tent cities and ironically the public becoming more scared of homeless people. (Since it moves more of them onto the sidewalks with some becoming aggressive as well making large semi-permanent tent cities with disease, drug paraphernalia, violence, and damages the areas of the city in strong ways) Yet on the other hand, the basic humanity of helping these people is important.

I’ll fully confess my own view is to never give to panhandlers. Again that’s primarily due to my experience in the past of working with homeless. While I was volunteering people would come in offering jobs that paid better than I was making at the time. A lot of it is either drug addiction, mental illness, or enjoying the lifestyle. But I tend to think these people need help and panhandling is a way to avoid getting help. (Not to mention some people who simply abuse the charity of others)

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By: Marc https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/uncomfortable-charity/#comment-541698 Sun, 11 Jun 2017 19:40:52 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36710#comment-541698 “Yeah, I remember your sermon, King Benjamin”

Ed Kimball’s anecdote about his father seems worth mentioning here: “[Spencer W. Kimball’s] brother-in-law Henry Eyring once asked him how he dealt with the scripture in Mosiah about not denying the beggar. Acknowledging the difficulty in complying, Spencer smiled wryly as he said self-deprecatingly, ‘I always read fast when I get to those verses.'” King Benjamin’s exhortation makes us all uncomfortable, and I think it is supposed to.

“Too often, I find myself avoiding eye contact as I give beggars a dismissive wave.”

My tendency to do this weighs heavily on me, so when I have nothing on me to give (nor the time to purchase something), I try to make eye contact with the beggars or indigent that I pass, acknowledge them and share some kind words. When I’m with my children, I’ll tell my children to say hello, which never fails to bring a smile to these people’s faces.

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By: mormonfarmer https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/uncomfortable-charity/#comment-541697 Sun, 11 Jun 2017 19:27:59 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36710#comment-541697 Bold, brave, kind, vulnerable, charitable, compassionate. Thanks Rachel.

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By: Chadwick https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/uncomfortable-charity/#comment-541695 Sun, 11 Jun 2017 12:57:47 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36710#comment-541695 I spent last week in manhattan for work. Saw loads of panhandlers. One night while getting off the subway a man who spoke little English but otherwise seemed to be dressed nicely kept saying the word money to me. He was clutching a metro card. So I grabbed the metro card and put money on it for him. Such a small thing, and I still have no idea if either of us understood each other, but I walked away feeling really good. I’ll never miss the $10 anyway.

I’ve been scolded so many times for doing what I thought were kind acts of service, but I don’t care. Critics gotta critique after all.

It’s nice when you can fill a very specific need like in Rachel’s story. And what a neat experience to grocery shop with her rather than simply handing her a bag of food. It takes a great deal of courage to handle that much awkwardness during such a lengthy exchange (at least, it would for me). Thank you for sharing.

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By: Tim https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/uncomfortable-charity/#comment-541694 Sun, 11 Jun 2017 12:44:48 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36710#comment-541694 It’s not just Provo where food isn’t the biggest need at food pantries. Most prefer cash, as it allows them to buy what typically doesn’t get donated, such as fresh produce and non-canned meat. Also, since most people donate food, and since government assistance (in the U.S. at least) revolves around food, things like toilet paper, diapers, etc. are usually in demand.

My local community donates hundreds of food baskets at Christmas every year. It’s a great thought, a lot of people donate time and money to it, and it does some good, but it’s not the most effective way to get those who need help the things they really need. Many of the families that get food baskets are already receiving food assistance from the government and have plenty of food–but have other significant needs. Rachel’s example of actually speaking with someone and asking them what they need is a great example of a better way to do things. And of course, the human element is also crucial.

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By: Rachel Whipple https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/uncomfortable-charity/#comment-541693 Sun, 11 Jun 2017 04:32:36 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36710#comment-541693 Drew and Clark, I agree, and I’m much more confident about these things when I’m in the States. I know the services (and some of the challenges) for people in the Provo area, so I feel that I can make more responsible choices. But I don’t know the system as well here in Belgium as I do there in Utah, which is why I chose to make this about connecting with one person, regardless of actual need, than a new strategy for dealing with every beggar on the street.

Acknowledging the humanity of other people is important. Call it a categorical imperative. But it is also risky, because it makes us vulnerable in our humaness as well.

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By: Clark Goble https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/uncomfortable-charity/#comment-541692 Sun, 11 Jun 2017 03:43:22 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36710#comment-541692 Honestly there are lot of people in tough straits who aren’t panhandling who often need the money worse. I’d find out where the local programs for the homeless are in your area and give generously. In the Provo area there’s a large building across from the Post Office in east bay (south of the tracks, turn at the Taco Bell). You can drive up and drop off donations of either canned goods or other items. I’d also ask what they are most in need of as it changes seasonly.

It’s been a few years but I used to do volunteer work at the local soup kitchen and surprisingly (at least then) food wasn’t the big need. They had more than they needed as BYU gave most of their leftover cafeteria food to the soup kitchen. But they were often in very short supply of diapers and feminine hygiene products. As I said, ask though as the needs change.

Personally I’d not give to pan handlers at all as often you’re simply neglecting the others in the most need.

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By: Drew H. https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/uncomfortable-charity/#comment-541691 Sun, 11 Jun 2017 03:01:47 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36710#comment-541691 I used to give generously to panhandlers, no questions asked, no judgement. I figured if they used it to buy drugs or alcohol that was on them, not me. Until this one time when I recognized a guy who had given me the exact same sob story the week before while I was getting money from an ATM (it’s illegal to panhandle near an ATM in most US states, by the way).

After that I realized that all the nickels and dimes (or $20, in the case of the aforementioned man who scammed me, since I’d just gone to the ATM it was the smallest I had) that I’d given to panhandlers over the years may or may not have been going to people in need. I studied the issue a bit and every professional I talked to who worked with the homeless said you should not give to panhandlers. Many of these people have substance abuse issues and are in programs that require them to meet certain conditions to keep getting help. By giving them money or food you’re enabling them to circumvent the requirements of their program which only hurts them in the long run. I decided that if I give to a well-established charity the likelihood is that much greater it’s going to someone in need.

Carry cards with the contact information for a shelter in your city that you donate to. If asked for money or food, give the card. They may try to hit you up for a ride to the shelter as well, I’m told that it’s better if they make their own way.

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By: canoelov https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/uncomfortable-charity/#comment-541690 Sat, 10 Jun 2017 22:18:15 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36710#comment-541690 What Joy said. Just treating them as humans, not objects, is valuable to them. To us.

I’ve had similar experiences to both ACW and Rachel. I’ve had guys say “I don’t want that, I want money.” I’ve had a guy in a jumpsuit (the kind you wear in methadone rehab in Harlem) hug me, weeping for a small gift of groceries, just some fruit, a juice, and few carbs. It’s a dance, and sometimes you step on toes or have your toes stepped on, but it’s important to keep dancing. Good for you for listening to King Ben. You bought groceries for Jesus.

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By: Joy https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/uncomfortable-charity/#comment-541688 Sat, 10 Jun 2017 16:06:16 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36710#comment-541688 What I especially like about what you did is the fact that you engaged with her as a person, one and one. That was perhaps almost as important to her as the groceries that you bought. This is a fine example and I hope to be able to emulate it one day.

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By: Rachel Whipple https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/uncomfortable-charity/#comment-541687 Sat, 10 Jun 2017 15:44:26 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36710#comment-541687 I’ve had bad experiences like that, too. They increase my anxiety. That’s why the little experiences like this one are valuable for me to cultivate: they change they way I experience the world.

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