Comments on: Access to the Temple https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/access-to-the-temple/ Truth Will Prevail Sun, 05 Aug 2018 23:56:25 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.9.8 By: Anonymous https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/access-to-the-temple/#comment-541852 Fri, 23 Jun 2017 20:50:46 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36764#comment-541852 I agree—it’s interesting that lots of temples seem distinctly car-culture-oriented. The Chicago temple, in Wilmette, is technically accessibly by public transit, but I’m not sure the details. I do know there’s nothing near it that allows walking, and that it requires at least one transfer from the city of Chicago, and weekends can take upwards of 2 hours. (Of course, it takes at least an hour to drive there, given Chicago traffic.) For many Chicagoans, who don’t have cars (or even who do), that’s a significant impediment to going to the temple. New York’s temple, situated on a major subway line and near a number of buses, strikes me as a much better model, especially in or near urban areas.

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By: New Iconoclast https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/access-to-the-temple/#comment-541849 Fri, 23 Jun 2017 16:04:44 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36764#comment-541849 Old Man says, I agree with Tiffany’s take on those wishing to use temple grounds like a public park. We forget too quickly that temple grounds are dedicated for a holy purpose.

I agree with Gomez on this one, perhaps not to the extent of holding dances. :) I certainly think we might be going a bit too far when we equate a picnic lunch with fraudulent and usurious money-changing on temple grounds. I can’t see Jesus overturning picnic tables and spilling the potato salad, and it could be argued that (subject to the idea of moderation), eating is a holy purpose.

People are holy, or have the potential to be so. Once you’re inside the temple, there’s plenty of time to speak in a reverent whisper and you can no longer hear the people walking and talking. Enforcing an extended “sacred silence zone” around the exterior of the building seems like just another gospel hobby horse to me.

Actual security, and preventing violence and vandalism, is a different story entirely.

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By: gomez https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/access-to-the-temple/#comment-541846 Fri, 23 Jun 2017 09:10:20 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36764#comment-541846 “Quite frankly the idea of having a picnic lunch on the grounds of any temple seems quite sacrilegious.”

“We forget too quickly that temple grounds are dedicated for a holy purpose.”

And I think we forget too quickly that the sterile decor and hushed tones of today’s temples are modern phenomena. In both Kirtland and Nauvoo, dances were actually held inside those temples. A family picnic on temple grounds sounds quite lovely to me.

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By: Hedgehog https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/access-to-the-temple/#comment-541845 Fri, 23 Jun 2017 06:50:30 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36764#comment-541845 As I said before it has to be a cultural thing, I think. In Britain it isn’t unusual to see people sitting quietly eating their lunches in the grounds of formal gardens and sacred buildings in our cities, cathedrals for instance, on a sunny day. There remains a respectful atmosphere. No-one is playing loud games close to the building (the meadow in the London temple grounds is a fair way back).
If we’re teaching our children to sing “I love to see the Temple” then they need to actually see it, and enjoy their time in the grounds. I much prefer eating outside in the grounds than in the cafeteria inside. The atmosphere outside is actually quieter, more reflective, more reverential than in the cafeteria where patrons are packed in close together, with the unavoidable accompanying sounds.

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By: Mike https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/access-to-the-temple/#comment-541844 Fri, 23 Jun 2017 02:24:32 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36764#comment-541844 I attend Sunday meetings at a chapel on the same property as a temple in an American city noted for its high crime. The fences and security measures around the temple are extensive. However, the youth of the ward have managed to habitually breach these security measures and play freely on the temple grounds while sluffing their meetings. They even changed the words of the favorite primary song from “Follow the Prophet, he knows the way,” to follow Melissa, she knows the way” (to get into the temple grounds).Or the name of whichever youth happened to be most capable of pulling this kind of prank at the time.

One Sunday morning my sister visiting from Salt Lake (who is generally a very pious and stalwart member of the church) was escorted onto the forbidden temple grounds by my then teenage daughter. My sister was so taken by the sight and smell of the beautiful magnolia blossoms that she had to have one. My daughter pointed out the numerous security cameras and refused to get one. My sister handed over her camera and purse while she climbed the tree in a dress to pluck one. My daughter took a picture of her Aunt stealing a magnolia flower from the temple grounds and told her she should pay double tithing next month as punishment for robbery.

I find it odd how we Mormons tend to think of the temple as almost like our own personal property. My sister would never stoop to stealing a flower from her neighbors or from a gardening store. But the temple? Well, that is an entirely different matter.

The LDS church owns the temples and does with them as they see fit and we have no more say in the matter than how our bank controls access to its buildings. And we shouldn’t expect any consideration of our opinions either. If we don’t like it then we need to find something else or somewhere else to go and do our thing.

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By: Thomas https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/access-to-the-temple/#comment-541839 Thu, 22 Jun 2017 19:21:38 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36764#comment-541839 @Naismith The Mesa Temple is still very open, you can enter through the parking gate on the South side, the reflecting pool entrance on the West (which is the actual entrance after the 78′ remodel), the baptistry gate on the East, and several gates on the North by the visitors center.

Mesa also has a cafeteria, although I’ve never eaten there. My family has also enjoyed several meals on the temple grounds, although we never bring in a huge meal with a blanket and a basket. We’re more of a brown bag type anyway though…. We do try to be respectful of the grounds though.

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By: Old Man https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/access-to-the-temple/#comment-541838 Thu, 22 Jun 2017 17:40:39 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36764#comment-541838 Old Man eats little kids for breakfast. Actually, I love kids, my own and others, and I want them playing at the park, not romping around the temple grounds. I’ll bring the frisbee and football.

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By: The Other Clark https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/access-to-the-temple/#comment-541834 Wed, 21 Jun 2017 17:01:41 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36764#comment-541834 I suspect “Old Man” does not have young kids. Even with the proliferation of temples, much of the membership–such as my family–still live hours from the temple. In my situation, it’s a two-hour drive each way, so an endowment session takes about 7 hours round trip. With four kids and no extended family nearby, the only way I’ve found is the “tag-team” arrangement mentioned by Hedgehog. I do a session while my wife watches the kids, then switch.

There’s a park adjacent to the Spokane Temple. The nearby stake center is frequently open with access to the nursery and gym. Not optimal, but certainly doable.

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By: Jared vdH https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/access-to-the-temple/#comment-541833 Wed, 21 Jun 2017 16:08:43 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36764#comment-541833 Some of the temples, the LA Temple in particular, have cafeterias in them! If I can reverently pay for a meal inside the temple walls I can certainly reverently eat a lunch I brought with me as I sit in the grounds! It’s not like I’m proposing staging a pickup football game. I’m reverently sitting and eating a sandwich for goodness sake! Are you telling me the only righteous way to eat on temple grounds is to pay for the privilege?

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By: Hedgehog https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/access-to-the-temple/#comment-541832 Wed, 21 Jun 2017 14:06:56 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36764#comment-541832 “the idea of having a picnic lunch on the grounds of any temple seems quite sacrilegious.”

Must be a cultural thing. Families here drive down to the temple with their children. One parent will go in whilst the other looks after the kids and then they swap around. We’ve done it. It isn’t unusual, and indeed is quite lovely to see members picnicking in the grounds on a sunny day. Also groups of primary children visiting the temple grounds as a primary outing.

The grounds of the London temple include a formal garden with benches for sitting, a wildlife/woodland area, and a meadow (it’s even been known for games to be played in the meadow).

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By: Old Man https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/access-to-the-temple/#comment-541829 Wed, 21 Jun 2017 01:52:22 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36764#comment-541829 I agree with Tiffany’s take on those wishing to use temple grounds like a public park. We forget too quickly that temple grounds are dedicated for a holy purpose. There are very few indications of Jesus demonstrating physical force and scolding people, but one such occasion was when he cleansed the temple at Jerusalem. Temple grounds are sacred spaces and need to be treated as such.

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By: Tiffany W https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/access-to-the-temple/#comment-541826 Tue, 20 Jun 2017 21:42:31 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36764#comment-541826 The Copenhagen Temple (at least 10 years ago) was just a block or so away from a bus stop and was accessible by bike, bus, and car. But the character of Copenhagen is such that it needed to be close to public transportation. The Manhattan temple is right next to a subway stop and is actually easier to access by public transportation/foot than by car. It seems that the temple in LA was built considering the norms and needs of the day. Perhaps if they renovate it in the future that might be considered.

I’m not in love with the temple grounds as a park space. I think it detracts from the sacred ground and holy nature of the temple. Quite frankly the idea of having a picnic lunch on the grounds of any temple seems quite sacrilegious. I think it needs to remain a space where it is kept apart for quiet and reverent reflection.

I think that visitors centers are marvelous and should be built, especially in areas where traffic is high and would attract visitors. They offer an important opportunity to share the gospel and the important nature of the temple.

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By: Jared vdH https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/access-to-the-temple/#comment-541823 Tue, 20 Jun 2017 15:25:08 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36764#comment-541823 I and a couple friends, who were all temple recommend holding members, were shoo’ed away from the LA temple grounds 10 years ago because we were traveling through the area and stopped to eat a sack lunch on the grounds. It was sad.

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By: John Mansfield https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/access-to-the-temple/#comment-541822 Tue, 20 Jun 2017 14:24:03 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36764#comment-541822 A comment that I left at Times and Seasons nine years ago:

One enters the Los Angeles temple in degrees, first pulling off a major road into the temple grounds, then walking through the courtyard formed by the main structure and the west and east wings. Entering at dusk or leaving at night gives a beautiful view of West LA which always made me mindful of separating from the ordinary world for a few hours of worship and then coming back into it to live; in no place were my feelings more routinely drawn out in love toward the world (meaning the people I shared the city with). The elevated, slightly isolated position, something like God’s, was part of that feeling.

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By: Owen https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/06/access-to-the-temple/#comment-541821 Tue, 20 Jun 2017 10:01:49 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36764#comment-541821 And we all presumably remember what happened at Temple Square when they threw all the gates open. Access to the grounds is still pretty easy, but brides are no longer heckled now that most of the gates have been locked again. This world does not deserve to have nice things.

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