Comments on: Church is Partially Pulling Out of Scouts https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/05/church-is-partially-pulling-out-of-scouts/ Truth Will Prevail Sun, 05 Aug 2018 23:56:25 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.9.8 By: Wizard of Oz https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/05/church-is-partially-pulling-out-of-scouts/#comment-541684 Sat, 10 Jun 2017 03:46:17 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36517#comment-541684 Charles Dalquist quotes Elder LeGrand Richards as saying, “It has been my experience that it is wisdom to stay with the Brethren—don’t lag behind them, and don’t try to get ahead of them.”

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By: Left Field https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/05/church-is-partially-pulling-out-of-scouts/#comment-541289 Fri, 19 May 2017 13:15:33 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36517#comment-541289 Two-deep leadership doesn’t require two registered den leaders for each den. It just requires another adult in the room. Parent, member of the bishopric, cubmaster, the other den leader when dens meet together, anyone sitting in the foyer waiting around to drive someone home after mutual, etc. Doubling up the Primary teachers wouldn’t be my first choice, but the option is there for both Activity Days and Cubs.

My ward’s Cub pack has about 3-4 cubs. We have one den leader. A nonmember parent is the Cubmaster. The committee chair is a Ward clerk (and until recently, the early morning seminary teacher). Scouting is a small part of his church service. The committee members are one parent (who is the EQ president), and a former bishopric member who was put in that position when we rechartered just because we had to have two committee members and he was already registered and done youth protection training. Committee service is fairly minimal. We have all the scout positions that are required to have a charter, but virtually all of the week-to-week program is the responsibility of the den leader and the cubmaster, one of which wouldn’t have a church calling otherwise. Abolishing cub scouting in my ward would free up exactly one adult leader for other callings. And that leader would still be needed for Activity Days, or whatever replaced cub scouting for the boys.

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By: Old Man https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/05/church-is-partially-pulling-out-of-scouts/#comment-541276 Fri, 19 May 2017 03:23:16 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36517#comment-541276 The Other Clark:
I live in a Utah community. I’ve witnessed many non-member Scout leaders. I also believe that given the chance, most LDS will drop Scouting like a hot potato

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By: Pete https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/05/church-is-partially-pulling-out-of-scouts/#comment-541254 Thu, 18 May 2017 15:35:54 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36517#comment-541254 I find it interesting that the church admits that disparity of funding in YW vs YM will be addressed (won’t hold my breath though) as a result of this change. It’s disappointing that although they’ve long been aware of it, it hasn’t been important until they decided that a program isn’t serving boys well enough. I haven’t seen anything saying they’re going to address the disparity of funding/resources between Activity Days girls and Cub Scouts.

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By: The Other Clark https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/05/church-is-partially-pulling-out-of-scouts/#comment-541252 Thu, 18 May 2017 14:44:59 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36517#comment-541252 It’s true that some wards “fudge” the two-deep leadership requirement for cubs, but it’s certainly enforced at the youth level. As for primary leaders doubling as den leaders, I’ve done it, and it’s a large burden to plan and execute a lesson every single Sunday and a solid hour-long scout activity every Wednesday (or whatever), especially as cub leaders tend to have young families.

As for non-member scout leaders, it’s about as common as literal descendants of Aaron serving as bishops without counselors. In areas I’ve served (Idaho, Utah, Alaska) bishoprics insist on youth leaders that will motivate YM to be worthy priesthood holders and full-time missionaries, which functionally means non-members are a non-starter.

Your mileage may vary, but that’s my experience.

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By: Left Field https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/05/church-is-partially-pulling-out-of-scouts/#comment-541246 Thu, 18 May 2017 02:46:09 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36517#comment-541246 That’s an overestimate of the leaders required for Cub Scouting. Only one den leader is required for each den, not two, and it is not required to have three separate dens unless the number of cubs requires it. The pack committee chair often doubles as the scout committee chair, and in my experience, it’s rare for that to be the be the person’s only calling unless the committee chair is a nonmember. Also, the Handbook (11.5.3) provides that the children’s primary teachers can double as scout leaders (and activity day leaders). Small wards and branches are already getting by with a minimum of scout leaders. Also, in terms of making the most of few available volunteers, scout callings have the advantage of being open to nonmembers and to members who may not meet “worthiness” requirements expected of most other callings.

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By: Clark Goble https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/05/church-is-partially-pulling-out-of-scouts/#comment-541245 Thu, 18 May 2017 00:18:58 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36517#comment-541245 A previously unrecognized benefit is that a huge amount of manpower will be freed up to help in other areas of the ward. (e.g. Activity days has 2 leaders, while the Cub pack has minimum of 9-Cub committee chair, cubmaster, and two each for wolfs, bears, and webelos)

Yup. The amount of callings could really be significantly reduced. A big deal in small wards.

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By: The Other Clark https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/05/church-is-partially-pulling-out-of-scouts/#comment-541243 Wed, 17 May 2017 19:21:57 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36517#comment-541243 My prediction is that the Church will drop Cubs first, and expand Activity Days into a boy/girl program, meeting twice a month. Scouts for Deacons will be the last to drop. A few other predictions:
* Weaning the BSA of LDS funds will take at least 5 years.
* Funds for YM and YW will not achieve parity after the 5-year ramp-down
* A previously unrecognized benefit is that a huge amount of manpower will be freed up to help in other areas of the ward. (e.g. Activity days has 2 leaders, while the Cub pack has minimum of 9-Cub committee chair, cubmaster, and two each for wolfs, bears, and webelos)
* The Church will see positive community outreach as LDS families that love scouting get involved in non-denominational troops and packs.

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By: Left Field https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/05/church-is-partially-pulling-out-of-scouts/#comment-541231 Mon, 15 May 2017 18:15:09 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36517#comment-541231 Alan, Varsity Scouts and Venturers who have reached First Class can continue to advance and earn the Eagle as a member of the Team or Crew until they turn 18. Or they can remain in the Troop until 18. Scouts can be concurrently registered in a Troop as well as a Team/Crew. My experience is that most wards don’t charter a Team or Crew, and scouts simply remain in the Scout Troop until they turn 18.

Before the current change, the Handbook has allowed wards to charter a Troop, a Team, and a Crew with the idea that deacons would be registered in the Troop, teachers in the Team, and Priests in the Crew. The wording of the recent change makes it sound like that this setup is SOP. Since the early 1980s , I’ve never been in a ward that has actually done that, or had the demographics that would allow them to do it. I think a ward I belonged to in the early ’80s had a Troop and a Varsity Team that were both functional.

Depending on ages, move-ins and move-outs, who is active or inactive, each Aaronic Priesthood quorum in my ward typically varies between about 1 and 4 active members. You need to have 2 just to keep your unit charter active. Setting up separate scouting units for each age group would be pointless. Your charter would lapse every time the number in that age group dropped below 2. And even with 4 or 5 the program isn’t functioning as intended. Every ward I’ve been in has a Scout Troop, and all registered boys 11-17 belong to the Troop. And even that’s a very small troop by non-LDS standards.

It doesn’t reflect the reality on the ground to suggest that only 11-13 year-olds register in the Troop and do advancement, and earn their Eagle, after which they move on to a Team/Crew and do Varsity/Venturing stuff. Somewhere over the rainbow there’s a ward that has been doing that. But I don’t know where they are. The “new policy” is nothing more than what the rest of us wards and branches have been doing for decades. Every ward will have a Troop, and scouts will belong to the troop for as long as they are advancing or want to participate, or until they turn 18. Just like now.

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By: thor https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/05/church-is-partially-pulling-out-of-scouts/#comment-541230 Mon, 15 May 2017 16:49:56 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36517#comment-541230 Alan – any young man, 11-18 years old, who wants to be involved in scouting will be registered with the troop.

It was different before, what with the Venture and Varsity “groups” – as well as different wards’ intepretation and implementation, but this change should help clarify the process.

The bigger curiosity is this: will all YM automatically be registered with the scout troop, or will the Scout Committee Chair or COR or whoever is doing the annual registration have to ask each YM between 14-18 whether or not he wants continue scouting? My guess is that registration will be done on a boy-by-boy approach only (for cost savings along!).

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By: Alan https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/05/church-is-partially-pulling-out-of-scouts/#comment-541229 Mon, 15 May 2017 15:09:23 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36517#comment-541229 Can someone who is heavily involved in the Scouting program clarify something? Can a boy over 14 years of age be registered in the Scout troop, rather than a Varsity or Venturer unit? My understanding was that the Church actually registered these units for older boys in the past so that they could continue to be affiliated with the BSA and earn their Eagle awards, not necessarily to implement the real Varsity/Venturer programs. How does a 17-year-old now affiliate with the BSA? Can he still be a member of the Scout troop, or does he have to enroll with a non-Church unit that matches his age?

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By: CW https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/05/church-is-partially-pulling-out-of-scouts/#comment-541228 Mon, 15 May 2017 08:51:59 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36517#comment-541228 OM,
There was no disparaging the work of making a mural. Just pointing out that the whole point of the eagle project is frequently misunderstood as the boy doing a big project. When it’s really (supposed to be) the boy organizing and leading others in service. Service leadership is one of the reasons why the church linked the aaronic priesthood with scouting, where available.

Sounds like you really enjoyed the mural project. Any online pictures? What was the mural subject?

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By: Old Man https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/05/church-is-partially-pulling-out-of-scouts/#comment-541227 Mon, 15 May 2017 05:37:04 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36517#comment-541227 CW,
The two youth who painted the mural I mentioned in my comment above planned it with the facility manager, designed it with helpful critiques from their art teacher, raised funds to complete it, and completed much of the work themselves (they did recruit a few friends to help out priming the wall and painting the background). They spent over 100 hours each working on the project. They did not do it for a badge or any public acclaim. They did it because they wanted to serve the elderly adults in the care facility and the invitation was extended by the facility manager. The mural is still prized by the facility over a decade later. They only mentioned it to me as I was interviewing them as high school seniors while assisting them with their college applications and the applications asked about service. They wanted to know if that project counted!

I’ve known many kids in my career and I know these two students have continued their quiet works of service in the community. If I could bottle what these two ladies learned and knew about service, BSA would actually work. But it would be a BSA with multitudes of badges and ranks. It would be a BSA without the military paraphernalia.
I think these ladies were part of a service organization that taught them the values they displayed. It was the LDS Church’s YW program. Can’t we have a program that helps do that for all of our kids? The YM have been deprived for long enough. They may do better with more values and less money!

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By: ji https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/05/church-is-partially-pulling-out-of-scouts/#comment-541226 Sun, 14 May 2017 17:34:14 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36517#comment-541226 Scouting is the greatest movement in the world for youth, boys and girls. Some countries maintain separate Boy Scout and Girl Scout programs, and some countries have single programs for both sexes.

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By: Pete https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2017/05/church-is-partially-pulling-out-of-scouts/#comment-541225 Sun, 14 May 2017 14:00:20 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=36517#comment-541225 CW, the Personal Progress program can easily be adapted for the young men.

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