Comments on: Entitled https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/04/entitled/ Truth Will Prevail Sun, 05 Aug 2018 23:56:25 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.9.8 By: Chadwick https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/04/entitled/#comment-537051 Wed, 06 Apr 2016 14:55:51 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=35001#comment-537051 I am really struggling with the notion that distance breeds entitlement.

To wit, I live in one of the nicest places in the entire world in central Orange County, CA. Master planned community, lots of capital floating around, etc. It is quite common in EQ for the discussion to become one of “how do I raise my children in such a great place and still keep them grounded and unspoiled.” And we aren’t talking about others spoiling them; we are talking about the parents spoiling them out of a concern to give them a nice life.

For example, my parents send me $100 every year for my birthday. I expect it now. If I were to only get $20 this July, I would probably be miffed. I feel entitled to $100 on my birthday from my parents. On the flip side, if I were to go to Chik-Fil-A and find out that some stranger paid my meal once as a kind gesture, I would hardly demand that experience to repeat each time I go out to eat.

To me, it seems the closer the relationship, the more likely we are to feel entitled. What am I missing?

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By: Clark Goble https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/04/entitled/#comment-537042 Wed, 06 Apr 2016 03:22:01 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=35001#comment-537042 That seems intrinsically the sort of question that inevitably leads to bad studies. (grin) How on earth would one measure “entitlement” in any reliable way?

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By: Clark Goble https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/04/entitled/#comment-537041 Wed, 06 Apr 2016 03:20:48 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=35001#comment-537041 The peer effect is very noticeable. Of course it doesn’t merely affect Mormon converts. There have been several economic studies that show one of the best things you can do for people in very poor neighborhoods is to simply move them out of that neighborhood. i.e. see this PBS story “…children who moved from high-poverty to low-poverty areas at a young age grew up to earn 30 percent more on average than those who remained.”

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By: tr https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/04/entitled/#comment-537035 Wed, 06 Apr 2016 00:37:21 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=35001#comment-537035 I’m not talking about emergency poverty relief, I’m talking about long-term intergenerational poverty relief. There’s a cultural shift in LDS converts that I’ve seen in and outside of the US. I’m sorry I don’t have statistics for that, but in my personal experience converts are resocialized into a realm where hard work and education are necessary and possible. Members believe themselves to be givers more than they believe themselves to be receivers, and can validate those beliefs with the many opportunities for service the Church provides.

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By: Lois https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/04/entitled/#comment-537013 Tue, 05 Apr 2016 04:20:48 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=35001#comment-537013 “LDS way out of poverty has never been through faceless welfare. And it works far, far better than the world’s way out of poverty.”

Outside the U.S., the church often partners with other aid organizations so I don’t know if there is a basis or not for the claim that the LDS system is far superior. Actually, I don’t know if there is a basis for this claim within the U.S either.

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By: Jennifer https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/04/entitled/#comment-536968 Mon, 04 Apr 2016 16:39:26 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=35001#comment-536968 Oops–the comment above was meant for your other post about people in poverty! When I refreshed the page on my phone to leave my comment, I somehow ended up on this post’s comments section by mistake…poetically enough, my comment sort of fits here, too, so I will just leave it!

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By: Jennifer https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/04/entitled/#comment-536965 Mon, 04 Apr 2016 12:31:39 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=35001#comment-536965 Thank you SO so much for this post. I am a former Relief Society president who worked with branch president that could not understand the concepts you discussed here. Being a wealthy man, he insisted that the poor folks we ministered to first behave like responsible, upper-class folk before they could receive church aid. Needy families went very hungry on our watch–I went to the stake for help, but stake leaders lived two hours away from us and could not see what was happening, so they lovingly reminded me to take counsel from branch leadership instead of going to them. I fought long and hard for those families, even tried to feed them on my own dime, but ended up moving away to another branch rather than watch people suffer under my stewardship. Since then, I have spent every testimony meeting, every church lesson, and every sacrament meeting talk advocating for the poor because I have been so haunted by the experience.

In addition to Ruby K. Payne’s books, I have discovered the work of scholars Lipina and Colombo, whose text _Poverty and Brain Development During Childhood_ reveals that there is an actual cerebral breakdown (brain damage) that results from the years of abuse, neglect, and malnutrition so common to most poor upbringings. This means that we can no more judge people raised in poverty as “undeserving” or “acting entitled” than we can judge special-needs persons as having brought their condition upon themselves. This is something that middle class and upper class children don’t experience, so church leaders hailing from those cozier, more comfortable backgrounds should never judge.

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By: tr https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/04/entitled/#comment-536963 Mon, 04 Apr 2016 05:02:37 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=35001#comment-536963 http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/50799-Democratic-Republic-of-Congo-Lubumbashi-to-Kinshasa/page1
Seems that entitlement really is a problem in Africa. They’re real humans, with complex motivations. It’s not right to patronize them, to use them as morality pets, when we could try to work with them. The detrimental effects of foreign aid are well-documented:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123758895999200083
http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/spiegel-interview-with-african-economics-expert-for-god-s-sake-please-stop-the-aid-a-363663.html
And seem to back up Elder Renlund’s point perfectly.

The LDS way out of poverty has never been through faceless welfare. And it works far, far better than the world’s way out of poverty.

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By: Christopher Bradford (Grasshopper) https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/04/entitled/#comment-536950 Sun, 03 Apr 2016 22:27:55 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=35001#comment-536950 It may seem intuitive, but intuition isn’t always accurate. That’s why I’d love to see some research evidence.

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By: Kent Larsen https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/04/entitled/#comment-536949 Sun, 03 Apr 2016 22:17:33 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=35001#comment-536949 Is the point behind this quote the entitlement? Or the distance? I tend to the latter.

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By: Eric https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/04/entitled/#comment-536948 Sun, 03 Apr 2016 20:23:17 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=35001#comment-536948 In his talk today, President Uchtdorf very clearly taught that there is unmerited grace in action when Jesus seeks the lost sheep. We don’t need to prove ourselves worthy for Jesus come after us when we’ve lost our way.

He also came very close to redefining obedience. It was a great talk.

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By: Frank McIntyre https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/04/entitled/#comment-536944 Sun, 03 Apr 2016 19:04:53 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=35001#comment-536944 True Blue, I don’t think that was what he was saying. You may wish to reread the talk to be sure, but it seems to me that he was talking in favor of an isolated person giving as better than arms length intervention by groups with little familiarity or connection with the individual in need.

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By: lemuel https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/04/entitled/#comment-536943 Sun, 03 Apr 2016 16:45:39 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=35001#comment-536943 Yeah. Doesn’t seem likely that Africa’s problem is one of a feeling of entitlement.

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By: Tom Irvine https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/04/entitled/#comment-536942 Sun, 03 Apr 2016 15:54:28 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=35001#comment-536942 I have had gut wrenching experiences with poor people to whom I have given money. The more I have given, the more they expected me to give. So I can understand Elder Renlund’s statements. I still try to be charitable with both time and money, but I try to be discerning. On another note, we are increasingly becoming a cashless society. I seldom carry paper money or use an ATM. What will become of panhandlers? Will they start carrying credit card reader devices? I am not trying to poke fun at street beggars. I have purchased meals for some of them.

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By: Matthew Kern https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/04/entitled/#comment-536941 Sun, 03 Apr 2016 14:56:22 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=35001#comment-536941 Elder Renlunds assertion that distance between giver and receiver increasing the receiver’s sense of entitlement seems very straightforward to me. Instead of seeing and being with those that are helping you, you become ignorant of the sacrifices involved in your charity to an extent. The “machine” of government or even there Church gave to me, not my neighbor. I am not knocking welfare or humanitarian aid.

I think the same concept works in reverse. When we hear about starving children in Africa, their plight is so distant, just a matter of words and some stock photo, that the effect or draw towards charity is weakened. If Jimmy down the street is starving your relationship with Jimmy plays a role and you more freely give and your level of Vincent is raised. It is just more real and tangible. You know and can see the effects.

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