Comments on: By Study and Faith, Part I https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/03/by-study-and-faith-part-i/ Truth Will Prevail Sun, 05 Aug 2018 23:56:25 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.9.8 By: Ziff https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/03/by-study-and-faith-part-i/#comment-536797 Tue, 22 Mar 2016 20:33:40 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34863#comment-536797 I totally love your approach, Julie. What a great way to convey the need to, as you say, keep one’s brain engaged in class, as well as to teach about the actual topic. I look forward to more of this type of post in your series!

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By: Colby T. https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/03/by-study-and-faith-part-i/#comment-536790 Mon, 21 Mar 2016 23:13:14 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34863#comment-536790 Just my two cents on DB. I worked at Deseret Book’s corporate office from early 2011 to mid-2012. I was the office services clerk, so I knew everyone in the office on a first name basis because I personally delivered them their mail. I worked closely with both the publications department and the buying team, helping them read manuscripts submitted for publication or books that publishers/authors wished to be sold in the stores. Those who published manuscripts and purchased books to be in the DB stores were more than aware of the implied stamp of approval. It is part of the decision making process, so when some have here suggested that approval I can state that it is a real part of the process on the inside at DB.

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By: ji https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/03/by-study-and-faith-part-i/#comment-536788 Mon, 21 Mar 2016 22:59:56 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34863#comment-536788 it seems to me beyond debate that the Deseret Book imprint operates as a kind of stamp of approval in Mormon culture

I’ll agree with the above statement for Deseret Books publications — however, I still aver that the above cannot be equated with “official approval” of, by, or for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. That has been my sole point in this discussion.

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By: Terry H https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/03/by-study-and-faith-part-i/#comment-536787 Mon, 21 Mar 2016 21:21:56 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34863#comment-536787 As for DB and its authenticity, the hardback of “Lengthen Your Stride”, about the Presidency of Spencer W. Kimball had a disclaimer from Corey Maxwell (Neal’s son?) in the front as to the representations of some of the people mentioned (certain GAs who might be thin-skinned).. To his credit, Edward Kimball got them to put the manuscript (less heavily edited) on a CD sold with the book. Frankly, I can’t find the book, but have downloaded the pdf from the CD everywhere and refer to it all the time.

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By: Mogs https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/03/by-study-and-faith-part-i/#comment-536784 Mon, 21 Mar 2016 15:32:43 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34863#comment-536784 imprimi potest (religious superior for authors in religious orders): it can be printed
nihil obstat (diocesan censor): nothing stands in the way
imprimatur (bishop): let it be printed

Basically, it just means that the persons indicated found nothing objectionable. It doesn’t typically convey anything stronger.

However, the absence of information such as an indication of who, precisely, is “approving” DB publications and the conditions and standards for doing so make the analogy too strained for my tastes. Transparency is necessary for trust.

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By: Ardis https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/03/by-study-and-faith-part-i/#comment-536783 Mon, 21 Mar 2016 11:58:03 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34863#comment-536783 “… but I have no interest in doing much of it myself.”

A confession that has the ring of truth, but no other merit.

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By: Cameron N. https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/03/by-study-and-faith-part-i/#comment-536782 Mon, 21 Mar 2016 04:23:42 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34863#comment-536782 An off-topic thought based on the scripture reference:

By study and faith.
Study: scripture study, pondering
Faith: doing, living life

Don’t just think about these things, try to add them to what you do every day.
Also, awesome lesson. Definitely appreciated by most LDS artists, I’d wager.
Sometimes I fancy taking up a more innovative religious art career. So many good ideas to start with: #1, Abinadi was a young scrawny guy that had his whole life ahead of him.

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By: Alison Moore Smith https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/03/by-study-and-faith-part-i/#comment-536781 Mon, 21 Mar 2016 03:13:24 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34863#comment-536781 Julie, I liked your five answers to “Why is it so hard for such a wealthy institution to provide good teaching materials?” All very valid. I’ve wanted to be in your class since I met you.

I’d add #6 as priorities. The church spends money on all sorts of things, including humanitarian service—which is about the only thing some factions give any credit for (when they actually do). So how many resources would it require to overcome your (and other) barriers? What would be the net benefit of doing so? I don’t have an answer to that specifically, but I’m not positive that in the grand scheme of things what we need most of all is to have erudite teaching materials, as nice as they might be to some.

Ben S bemoaned the idea that most LDS adults don’t continue deep gospel study after college. I’d agree that is true, but intense scripture/historical/language study simply isn’t the priority for everyone. I’m glad for those who do this work and read many of their writings, but I have no interest in doing much of it myself.

I focus on web technology and languages, business, tax law (shoot me), education, entertainment promotion, etc., because it’s most useful to me. Should I spend that time in gospel study? What’s the opportunity cost? My husband is a world-class expert in multiple engineering specialties (blockchain, reputation, autonomous vehicles, fuzzy logic, etc.) and spends most of his time learning and consulting about those subjects. He enjoys intense gospel study and is an excellent, well-read scholar, but uses that in teaching gospel doctrine, family discussions, etc., and doesn’t take the time to blog, write, or discuss it online. Priorities.

Ben S.:

I didn’t realize we were playing with the No True Scotsman fallacy. My bad.

haha Ben, Ben, you’ve been blogging a long time. You should have seen that from a mile away!

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By: Tim https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/03/by-study-and-faith-part-i/#comment-536780 Mon, 21 Mar 2016 02:10:36 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34863#comment-536780 Am I right that he was never a member of the first quorum of the seventy (although somehow a member of the Presidency of the Seventy)? He was a member of the second quorum, whose members don’t gain emeritus status. Interesting distinction that the news articles haven’t grasped.

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By: Left Field https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/03/by-study-and-faith-part-i/#comment-536779 Mon, 21 Mar 2016 01:49:03 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34863#comment-536779 Not making any point other than the point I’m making, but Keith B. McMullin is an emeritus general authority. Robert C. Oaks is a former general authority.

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By: Tim https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/03/by-study-and-faith-part-i/#comment-536777 Sun, 20 Mar 2016 23:41:24 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34863#comment-536777 The difference between Donald Trump and Deseret Book is that the church owns Deseret Book, it’s enjoyed by many church members, and it’s aimed at an LDS audience. Not sure what Robert Oaks is thinking (or perhaps the problem is that he’s not thinking), but Donald Trump sure isn’t owned by the church, liked by many church members (judging solely by polling and voting numbers), or aimed at an LDS audience.

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By: christiankimball https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/03/by-study-and-faith-part-i/#comment-536776 Sun, 20 Mar 2016 23:00:37 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34863#comment-536776 I’m really surprised that there’s any disagreement about Ben S.’ comments. I can imagine discussion about whether it’s good or appropriate for Deseret Book to play a role in the range of authoritative approval. I can imagine debate about the quality or bona fides or authoritativeness of any number of particular works published by Deseret Book. I can imagine legal distinctions about ownership and control and approval vs authorization vs not disapproval, and so on. But as a purely descriptive matter, for better or worse, like it or not, it seems to me beyond debate that the Deseret Book imprint operates as a kind of stamp of approval in Mormon culture.

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By: Nathan Whilk https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/03/by-study-and-faith-part-i/#comment-536775 Sun, 20 Mar 2016 22:35:42 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34863#comment-536775 “note that the president and CEO of Deseret Book is an emeritus General Authority”

But so is the head of the Trump campaign in Utah. What significant is said about an enterprise when you say that it’s being run by an emeritus General Authority?

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By: Ardis https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/03/by-study-and-faith-part-i/#comment-536774 Sun, 20 Mar 2016 17:13:18 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34863#comment-536774 I wonder if commenters really understand “nihil obstat.” Saying “we have no objection” is a far cry from saying “this is exactly what we think a book should be.” It’s the difference between deciding a movie is okay for your kids because there are no swear words, and saying that a movie is a piece of great art.

I agree with Ben S. that publication by DB *is* a cultural indicator that an item has no overtly objectionable (heretical, pornographic, whatever) content, and therefore fits on the *range of authoritative approval” which is all the authority he has granted publication by DB — it doesn’t represent the full range, but it is o the scale.

Anecdotally, more books are purchased from DB to give as gifts than to read — if that’s the case, then the general LDS population seems to recognize the same “nihil obstat”: “I’m not interested in reading it, but it comes from DB so it’s safe to give to Mom/Grandma/my visiting teacher.”

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By: Tom https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/03/by-study-and-faith-part-i/#comment-536773 Sun, 20 Mar 2016 16:16:12 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34863#comment-536773 I am puzzled by Ben S.’s insistence about the quasi-official status of Deseret Book publications, since he repeatedly acknowledges that he has no inside knowledge of DB’s approval process. But I can see a good reason for JI’s adamant position. DB is a going business concern, and its publishing decisions must be based primarily on keeping the company profitable, not on religious orthodoxy. It happens that religious and political conservatism is currently good business for Deseret Book. That’s a safe stance to take, since it appeals to a lot of conservative Mormon customers and it’s unlikely to stir up controversy within the Mormon beehive. But it’s very dangerous to conflate DB’s business strategy with an official imprimatur from the Church. There is still a pretty wide range of stuff that DB publishes, anodyne though most of it may be. To suppose that DB’s editorial decisions represent quasi-official positions from the Church leads quickly to confusion about whether theological or political ideas should carry quasi-official weight just because they show up in a DB publication. Or whether the lightweight inspirational authors and novelists who fill DB’s lists somehow represent the Church’s ideas about what these kinds of books should be. The “nihil obstat” argument that Ben S. wants to make is just too fine, especially considering that the Church has made no such distinction itself.

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