Comments on: 12 Questions with Tod Harris, Church Translation Department — Part II https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/02/12-questions-with-tod-harris-church-translation-department-part-ii/ Truth Will Prevail Sun, 05 Aug 2018 23:56:25 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.9.8 By: Steven https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/02/12-questions-with-tod-harris-church-translation-department-part-ii/#comment-536530 Mon, 29 Feb 2016 04:55:48 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34799#comment-536530 “The Book of Mormon has only been translated from its source language to English once.” Really? I guess I would have said that it hasn’t ever been done. To suggest that he translated it from the source language to English suggests that (a) he knew the source language and (b) that he used the text on the plates. I am not sure how much evidence there is for either of these claims. Regarding the first point, did Joseph Smith claim to know the source language? I am not sure that I have ever heard that. Regarding the second point, it was my understanding that Joseph didn’t have the plates out for most of the translation and that his primary method was to use the seer stone. When he was asked about it, Joseph said that he translated The Book of Mormon by the “gift and power of God.” To me this doesn’t provide any support for your assertion that “Since the time of Joseph Smith, the Church has followed a very conservative scripture translation philosophy, striving to be as literal to source texts as possible.”

“To facilitate the preservation of this relatively literal and therefore very accurate translation.” I think I missed something here.

“We strive to produce “modified-literal” translations of scriptures in order to provide an experience for target language readers that is very similar to the one readers of the original English text have.” I think that the name for that experience, especially as it relates to the KJV, is “muddling our way through texts we don’t really understand.”

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By: Wahoo Fleer https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/02/12-questions-with-tod-harris-church-translation-department-part-ii/#comment-536457 Wed, 24 Feb 2016 18:01:27 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34799#comment-536457 I too am interested in hearing about how Brother Harris’s work affects his view of the King James Version of the Bible and our adherence to it and what translation he would use if it were up to him. I’m sure he wouldn’t give his opinion in a million years but I’d love to know.

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By: JKC https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/02/12-questions-with-tod-harris-church-translation-department-part-ii/#comment-536450 Wed, 24 Feb 2016 15:13:32 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34799#comment-536450 I found it interesting that the church prefers to stick close to the source texts. But if that is the case, why are we so attached to the KJV in English? I mean, I can give a bunch of historical or cultural reasons, but our attachment to the KJV and our wariness toward using other modern translations that may be closer to the source texts than the KJV does seem to be at odds with our preference to stick close to source texts.

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By: Left Field https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/02/12-questions-with-tod-harris-church-translation-department-part-ii/#comment-536448 Wed, 24 Feb 2016 04:23:11 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34799#comment-536448 To me, the connotation is “saints of the present time,” not just all those “saints of the Bible.”

It’s the same way we speak of “modern prophets” to emphasize that prophets have been restored in the present time.

“Latter-day” is about the Restoration, not about the last days.

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By: Kevin Barney https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/02/12-questions-with-tod-harris-church-translation-department-part-ii/#comment-536444 Wed, 24 Feb 2016 01:52:21 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34799#comment-536444 I’ve thought that “latter day” in the name of the Church is simply using the comparative for the superlative, and that the name therefore really does mean “of the last days.” But I’m not at all sure about that. Latter can mean the second of two (or vaguely referring to a part toward the end, without necessarily defining two parts), in contrast with former (IE latter day saints as opposed to former day saints), or “recent, present,” which would also make sense. So what is the official take on what “latter day” means in the name of the Church?

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By: Grant Hardy https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/02/12-questions-with-tod-harris-church-translation-department-part-ii/#comment-536441 Wed, 24 Feb 2016 00:33:53 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34799#comment-536441 At some point, could you say more about the system you’ve developed for analyzing bible translations in terms of language formality and doctrinal accuracy?

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By: J. Stapley https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/02/12-questions-with-tod-harris-church-translation-department-part-ii/#comment-536440 Tue, 23 Feb 2016 21:43:51 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34799#comment-536440 Are the translation guides “restricted” documents? The would seem to be extremely unusual in their descriptive potency in relation to current Mormon approaches to belief and practice.

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By: christiankimball https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/02/12-questions-with-tod-harris-church-translation-department-part-ii/#comment-536438 Tue, 23 Feb 2016 20:49:51 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34799#comment-536438 Interesting, valuable . . . thanks (for this whole series).

I love the replicating ambiguity point. It is a necessary discussion, in my opinion, and I was not aware that attention was being given (a good start) and that the approach is what I would choose (hurrah).

I share the puzzlement over “literal = accurate”. I think (but would like to know more) that doesn’t really mean what it says. I think it means that the translator is trying to inject as little as possible of their own preconceived and possibly idiosyncratic understanding of the English text. “Literal” is like saying “it’s not me, it’s a more mechanical process.” I am skeptical, on multiple levels.

If there is a possibility for questions, or perhaps this is all coming(?):
>How do you think about the level or class or sophistication of the language? College educated . .. or primary education basic reading? Polite language or common/street language? In English one would ask Anglo-Saxon words or Latinate forms?
>For some languages (presumably where the numbers are small) there has been a “selected” version of the Book of Mormon including only some books and chapters. Is this still the case? What are we to take or learn from the selection?

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By: Rosalynde Welch https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2016/02/12-questions-with-tod-harris-church-translation-department-part-ii/#comment-536437 Tue, 23 Feb 2016 20:05:45 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34799#comment-536437 Points of interest from this chunk:
— the tricky task of the translation guides in *defining* the precise contours of *ambiguity,* and trying to replicate that as closely as possible in the target language. Precisely-rendered ambiguity: kinda makes your head hurt!

–I’m interested in the assertion that “Since the time of Joseph Smith, the Church has followed a very conservative scripture translation philosophy, striving to be as literal to source texts as possible”. What do you have in mind when you say “from the time of Joseph Smith”? It would seem that the Book of Abraham is an instance of a radically NON-literal translation method. How do you account for the Book of Abraham under a strong mandate for literalness?

–on that vein, I’m interested in the implied syllogism in the phrase “relatively literal and therefore very accurate translation.” It seems that in typical translation scenarios, a literal translation could be significantly *less* accurate if it fails to convey the message or, in its literalness, picks up idiomatic or implied meanings external to the original. (Perhaps that is what is addressed in the idea of “modified-literal” — but then why cling so strongly to the literal ideal?) I understand that you are simply working under a mandate coming down from the presiding authorities, and you probably do not care to speculate on the “why.” Nevertheless, I find it fascinating and, clearly, a bit frustrating. :)

–on a positive note, I love your observations about the way in which collaborate translation work builds the initial community of Saints in a new area. Now THAT is something I recognize “from the time of Joseph Smith” onward. :)

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