Comments on: The First Vision of Lienhard Jost https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/12/the-first-vision-of-lienhard-jost/ Truth Will Prevail Sun, 05 Aug 2018 23:56:25 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.9.8 By: Jesse H. https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/12/the-first-vision-of-lienhard-jost/#comment-535624 Fri, 11 Dec 2015 18:36:06 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34528#comment-535624 In their role as visionaries, what do Noah, Lehi, Ezekiel and St. John have that Joan of Arc, Margery Kempe, Bernard de Clairvaux, the Erythraean Sibyl, and Bernadette Soubirous don’t have? Canonicity, I suppose, although it certainly depends on who establishes the canon (three in my latter group are already canonized Saints). In their day, biblical prophets didn’t have the benefit of having their visions pre-canonized, therefore those choosing to follow their teachings must have demonstrated a greater act of faith than those who came after.

Joseph Smith allowed for truth to be found in un-canonized scripture upon condition of receiving personal guidance: “whoso readeth it, let him understand, for the Spirit manifesteth truth;” — D&C 91:4. That places greater responsibility on the reader. But, we may be shy about accepting truth from unacknowledged or unapproved visions of glory because we certainly don’t want to make a mistake. What if we end up following the hallucinations of a mad man? Our eventual acceptance of unorthodox visionaries may require more of us in terms of both our ability to believe and our connection to the Spirit, but it may also allow us to celebrate the goodness of God who liberally shares dreams, visions, wisdom, and many other divine gifts with so many of His children.

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By: Cameron N. https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/12/the-first-vision-of-lienhard-jost/#comment-535620 Fri, 11 Dec 2015 06:49:57 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34528#comment-535620 My wife has dreams (at least a few each year) that have a clear spiritual message.
I don’t get those hardly ever.

Once on my mission we fasted with a family we had just started teaching. The wife had a dream that she was in the chapel and a woman went up to shake the bishop’s hand but couldn’t sustain it. Then she went up and shook his hand and was able to stand.

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By: Comet https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/12/the-first-vision-of-lienhard-jost/#comment-535619 Fri, 11 Dec 2015 06:13:45 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34528#comment-535619 Both the post and comments are fascinating. Would love to hear
more about contemporary visions and dreams.

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By: Jonathan Green https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/12/the-first-vision-of-lienhard-jost/#comment-535614 Thu, 10 Dec 2015 17:07:17 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34528#comment-535614 Thanks for the comments. The Josts and other visionaries are interesting cases because they are not related to Mormonism in any obvious way, yet they seem familiar in other ways, and the possibility of interaction (as Hans and Wilfried point out) is always there.

Craig, I’ve often wondered if anxiety about literacy in transition is one of the necessary ingredients for visionaries. It’s certainly one of Jost’s concerns. A religious environment undergoing change seems to be another necessity, but what’s so interesting about Jost is that he’s not easily identifiable with any particular side in the Reformation. His visions have a good amount to say about clerical poverty and sacramental theology and other issues that indicate he’s aware of the ongoing debates, but his answers are filtered through an impoverished laborer’s personal experience and expressed in personally significant symbolism (such as partial stigmata) that are prior to or outside of the prevailing discussion.

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By: Wilfried https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/12/the-first-vision-of-lienhard-jost/#comment-535612 Thu, 10 Dec 2015 11:56:02 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34528#comment-535612 Interesting contribution, Jonathan. Also Hans’ comment is quite fascinating. Has the role of visionaries in conversion to Mormonism ever been documented? In Holland, exactly during Joseph Smith’s period, there was the “prophetess” Maria Leer with the “Nieuwlichters” (Newlighters) under the direction of the exalted Stoffel Muller. In the 1860s the remnant of that “brotherhood” got involved with Mormonism, which some recognized as the fulfillment of their prophecies. Many were baptized and emigrated to Utah.

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By: Craig H. https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/12/the-first-vision-of-lienhard-jost/#comment-535599 Wed, 09 Dec 2015 17:17:12 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34528#comment-535599 Nice story! Is the crucial thing about visionaries that they’re illiterate in an increasingly literate society? Or is it that they don’t like current religious configurations, and how much attention they get (good or bad) depends on how firm, or threatened, those configurations are? Would that be another takeaway?

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By: Hans https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/12/the-first-vision-of-lienhard-jost/#comment-535582 Wed, 09 Dec 2015 11:22:53 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34528#comment-535582 In our city, here in the Netherlands, we have a city preacher, who calls himself an apostle fof Jesus Christ. He had left his loving wife and children and good profession, and went to our city to preach, as God personally commanded him, so he says. Thos people who are serious about God and able to handle it, he gives private lessons on the Book of Mormon, teaching Jesus. This course may last over a year, with weekly lessons. If they “graduate” (if they can handle the higher law), he sends them to the LDS missionaries. Otherwise he sends them to the Pentecostals or others, depending on their level of spirituality. We have had 3 converts from him, all well prepared and serious and wonderful people. One day, he says, he too, will be ready for Mormonism. But for the moment he needs to preach in the streets, as God told him in a personal visit. This is a highly intelligent man, with no psychotic symptoms (as judged by me). Thank you, Jonathan, for your interesting story.

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