Comments on: YW Lesson: Why Is It Important for Me to Gain an Education and Develop Skills? https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/11/yw-lesson-why-is-it-important-for-me-to-gain-an-education-and-develop-skills/ Truth Will Prevail Sun, 05 Aug 2018 23:56:25 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.9.8 By: mez https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/11/yw-lesson-why-is-it-important-for-me-to-gain-an-education-and-develop-skills/#comment-535371 Mon, 23 Nov 2015 07:47:45 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34400#comment-535371 Well, thank you! I was showing how people with no money to start with –got some. No one showed my parents and if you don’t know, it’s harder. Mortimer, listen up! My parents were immigrants. I am the first generation born in the U.S. Their parents were coalminers who came here with NOTHING. My husband’s parents were also immigrants–Jews who fled Poland and came here with NOTHING.
No one had wealth. Both sets of parents worked and sacrificed for what they obtained–with the women working outside the home because quite frankly, a SAHM was a luxury they couldn’t afford. My parents saved what they could–in the bank. That’s what they knew to do. My inlaws saved what they could–and invested it in large companies that seemed like they’d be around a long time and paid dividends –like the electric company, other utilities, US Steel, Merck, etc. Then reinvested those dividends. And my inlaws lived more frugally than my parents. What they did advanced their family more than what mine did. Mortimer, I shared this with all because it might help someone else better their situation. It shows that people who had no wealth to begin with, were able to attain it –over time –by doing those things
Of course most medical students, especially LDS ones, don’t begin to pay off their loan until after graduation–that’s my point. The ones who can had someone way back in their family who looked into investing. It starts somewhere with someone–who didn’t have enough. You could use some sound guidance.
I accept your challenge Mortimer–go to Wells Fargo. Tell them you’d like to meet with a financial planner to see what they’d recommend you do. Also, go to a used book store. Pick up a copy of one of David Bach’s finish rich series like “Smart Women Finish Rich”. It shows what can be done by nearly anyone with, literally, a few dollars today.

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By: Lisa https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/11/yw-lesson-why-is-it-important-for-me-to-gain-an-education-and-develop-skills/#comment-535369 Mon, 23 Nov 2015 03:54:11 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34400#comment-535369 I had the opportunity to teach this lesson today as well. I love Julie’s idea of using the “I am a Mormon” profiles. While that never occurred to me, I did something that I think basically had the same sort of impact. I chose three of my personal friends and wrote up a profile of each one, then had girls take turns reading them aloud and sharing their impressions from each woman’s story. (I asked my friends to share their educational journeys and how education had blessed their lives; I then wrote these stories in a format that would be best for my lesson.) I felt it was important to share stories of real women whose lives were much like my YW’s lives may be in the future. Two of the three I shared were working mothers, and two of the three had advanced degrees. The other was a woman who grew up with adhd and learning disabilities and didn’t learn to read until she was an adult, but found an alternative career in which she is highly successful and now owns her own business. I wanted the girls to know that it doesn’t matter what your talents or weaknesses are, there is a place for you to do something amazing in this world.

I did use the example from the lesson helps online, starting out with the question of what they might say to a friend considering dropping out of school and counting on a future husband to support her. The girls in my class had some fabulous answers to give, and no one said anything even remotely resembling “so you can attract a RM”. I have a former neighbor who did drop out of high school, and whose own mother did indeed say to her, “It doesn’t really matter, you have a pretty face, you’ll get married and it will be fine.” It was not fine. Six kids and one divorce later, with not even a high school diploma, it was not fine. (I wasn’t planning to, but I actually did share this story with the girls as we discussed that question.)

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By: Mortimer https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/11/yw-lesson-why-is-it-important-for-me-to-gain-an-education-and-develop-skills/#comment-535368 Sun, 22 Nov 2015 19:56:49 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34400#comment-535368 Many bloggernacle writers wring their hands at YW lessons that focus unhealthily on modesty, or prioritize narrow life paths at the expense of important topics such as education. I add the prosperity doctrine to that list. I probably should have been more delicate in bringing it forward, but I’m sick of it. The truth is that most medical students, despite working hard and handling their money extremely carefully and intentionally, do not pay off their student loans prior to graduation. I challenge those who have decided I’m wrong to show me a model using the past three years of market performance, and a realistic amount of discretionary money for a low-income student (such as $250-$500 even annually) to parlay $200k-$300k in a three year period using not hindsight, but advice from the time.

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By: Alison Moore Smith https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/11/yw-lesson-why-is-it-important-for-me-to-gain-an-education-and-develop-skills/#comment-535362 Sun, 22 Nov 2015 04:06:09 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34400#comment-535362 ji, ditto on both counts. As I’ve watched those in my family work very hard for the educations and careers, one of the most harmful things I see is deriding those who have succeeded while demanding they are outliers whose experiences cannot be duplicated.

Mez, thanks for sharing and for the great example.

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By: ji https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/11/yw-lesson-why-is-it-important-for-me-to-gain-an-education-and-develop-skills/#comment-535349 Sat, 21 Nov 2015 13:45:46 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34400#comment-535349 Mez,

Thanks for sharing — I’m embarrassed by Mortimer’s unkindness to you.

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By: Mortimer https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/11/yw-lesson-why-is-it-important-for-me-to-gain-an-education-and-develop-skills/#comment-535342 Sat, 21 Nov 2015 00:20:31 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34400#comment-535342 Mez,
Your daughter’s medical school tuition was paid for because she came from a wealthy family and had money to invest. She also had money to live on and the ability to re-invest. Most students do not have inheritances to do this. It takes money to grow money.

Some people work hard and live frugally, but through no fault of their own, they simply never amass enough money to invest. Sometimes those solid blue-chip investments are stolen by crooked people. Sometimes the stock-market lottery crashes down on even the most conservative investors. Sometimes people decide not to invest in portfolio pieces that they find to be morally in-congruent with their values- for example, some boycott companies that rape the environment, profit from sweat shops or child labor, evade taxes, outsource American business, benefit from multi-level marketing, are associated with certain political lobbies or policies, etc. etc. etc. I’m not saying that your money was invested in such causes, I’m just saying that there are some who ethically oppose portfolio pieces, regardless of how stable they are.

I’m glad your daughter doesn’t have debt, but you can’t teach poor or middle-class girls that they can do the same thing and you certainly don’t have the right to insinuate that it was because three generations of wealth were more clever, thrifty, prudent, etc. Granted, you did manage the money well, but you had money to grow money. Setting girls up to believe that if they were just as clever, they could live the same way is not only FALSE most of the time, but it also contributes to guilt, shame, “holier than thou” mentalities, and class issues. Stop it.

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By: rah https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/11/yw-lesson-why-is-it-important-for-me-to-gain-an-education-and-develop-skills/#comment-535328 Fri, 20 Nov 2015 16:21:41 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34400#comment-535328 Julie – great lesson! For those interested in more resources for YW activities and materials that fit into educational and career discussions for YW please check out http://www.aspiringmormonwomen.org. We have career profiles of LDS women, articles written by young women on why and how they chose which college to attend, podcasts, and even an archive of young women’s lessons on various topics from career days, to leadership training. http://aspiringmormonwomen.org/category/young-womens-activities-2/. Julie, we would love to add your lesson plan to our archives!

Our girls need support not only in obtaining their educational goals but in making sure they feel the “whole spectrum of human endeavor” is open to them. Thanks President Hinkley! I want to second the person that said a predominant “just in case” rhetoric is one of the most damaging ways in which we frame educational and career endeavors for women. It makes anything but one path feel like a plan B and even that if and when a women decides to enter the workforce it is due to some sort of family system failure. I think it also tacitly denigrates families who choose to have spouse at home (often by major sacrifice) by not honoring the full agency of their choice and stokes the incredibly unproductive mommy wars. Additionally, the often accompanying message that a college degree alone is an actual effective “just in case” plan is simply untrue in today’s economy. Your lesson honoring the multi-faceted reasons for education is much healthier.

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By: mez https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/11/yw-lesson-why-is-it-important-for-me-to-gain-an-education-and-develop-skills/#comment-535326 Fri, 20 Nov 2015 08:01:44 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34400#comment-535326 Excellent lesson. I’d like to add that our daughter is a doctor. Medical school tuition is high but before she graduated nearly all her loan was paid off due to her father being taught by his father, how to invest in major companies– through stocks and bonds which pay dividends—and keep re-investing those dividends instead of spending them and it really grows while weathering the markets over time. My father simply worked hard and wondered how others got ahead.
My mother in law was a SAHM and then school teacher and my father in- law, a building inspector, worked hard and invested –the latter made the difference in what his children and their children could aspire to and attain without incurring huge debt. They lived comfortably but frugally. always trying to put aside for the next generation. Most of their grandkids today are professionals.

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By: Ruth Anne Shepherd https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/11/yw-lesson-why-is-it-important-for-me-to-gain-an-education-and-develop-skills/#comment-535324 Fri, 20 Nov 2015 03:04:24 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34400#comment-535324 Julie – thank you for helping YW recognize the need to invest in themselves, their education, and their future.

Caregiver roles and other relentless demands on women often mean they must be innovative with regard to employment. As pointed out by other commenters, having no work experience after earning a degree or leaving a career to be a SAHM often makes entering or re-entering the workforce difficult.
However, women who use their education and talents to run their own businesses may have a better opportunity to adjust their work schedule to be compatible with their current life situation (with or without a spouse and/or dependents-children or aging relatives).

In 2015, Silicon Valley Women (SVW) hosted Women in Small Business workshops. The dozens of creative women business owners who shared their knowledge and experience was impressive. SVW welcomes all women (regardless of religious affiliation) to participate in our events, however, our one minute promotional video happens to feature LDS women:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsj3SbGje1s

Note that the women in this video all have families in different stages: some with young children, some with teenagers, and some with an empty nest.

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By: Mortimer https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/11/yw-lesson-why-is-it-important-for-me-to-gain-an-education-and-develop-skills/#comment-535323 Fri, 20 Nov 2015 00:26:45 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34400#comment-535323 I was taught in YW that I should have a career as a back-up plan, in case my husband died or worse- couldn’t “provide” for us. However, the statistics for women re-entering the workforce after a long hiatus with expired or no professional experience are quite dismal. In today’s competitive workplace, you really have to keep one foot in the field, or be prepared to re-enter school or professional training in order to enter the workforce.

Also, I find the references to women in healthcare fascinating. I wonder what the girls would say if you asked them to talk about receiving healthcare degrees and then being a complete or periodic SAHM. For example, by accepting a position in med school, you are taking a career away from approximately 100-400 other students who would have liked to, but will not be physicians. (Many are equally competent, it’s just that there are only so many seats in med school.) Is it ethical for you to take one of those seats and then be a SAHM? If you become a physician, you will take the Hippocratic Oath and have a duty to alleviate illness and pain with the training you were privileged enough to earn (on the backs of hard-working tax payers and the lifetime commitment of many others.) Is it ethical to work only part time? 6 hours a week? Likewise, as a midwife, an NP, an RN, you can provide a service to the community with specialized skills that others cannot. What was Emma or Zipporah, or Mariam doing with their own children when they were called upon to save lives and ensure public health? Isn’t this argument true for just about every other skilled profession? Which roles should we expect to exchange in a community and which roles should not be out-sourced?

I commend you Julie for showing positive role models of both modern and biblical women. This is going in the teaching file!

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By: BevP https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/11/yw-lesson-why-is-it-important-for-me-to-gain-an-education-and-develop-skills/#comment-535321 Thu, 19 Nov 2015 22:27:44 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34400#comment-535321 Yes, education, please, and not just for working, but for the sheer fun of using the mind we’ve been given – whatever kind of mind we have. And if we didn’t get enough early, we can come back to it later. I didn’t finish my PhD till I was 65 and had long had the job I loved on the basis of my MS, after my kids were pretty independent, so I did it basically for fun [and rather a lot of hard work]. And the university where I taught paid for it at another university! I spent 20 years as course tutor for the mature part-time students on our degree, mostly women, who were wonderful! They were more than a match for most of the youngsters on the course. It was grand to watch their minds unfurl and light up, remembering that they really are brighter than they’d come to think during their stay home with kids years. Twelve years after she graduated with an excellent honours degree, one of them has just come back to me to talk about research for a PhD herself. Please don’t let those wonderful minds stop wondering!

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By: Owen https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/11/yw-lesson-why-is-it-important-for-me-to-gain-an-education-and-develop-skills/#comment-535318 Thu, 19 Nov 2015 20:32:18 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34400#comment-535318 Maybe I missed this and you did cover it, but the benefits of a mother’s higher education for children’s academic (and other) achievement are important. Every potential part of a young woman’s future life is enhanced by education.

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By: Michelle https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/11/yw-lesson-why-is-it-important-for-me-to-gain-an-education-and-develop-skills/#comment-535312 Thu, 19 Nov 2015 06:43:30 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34400#comment-535312 Also, although this goes beyond the scope of your lesson, obviously, I think more women and young women would benefit from discussions and idea-sharing about how hire-ability isn’t just based on degrees. A degree that seems useless on the surface could turn into something valuable if a student does internships, has mentors, shadows and networks, volunteers in a space that she is interested in, attends conferences, builds knowledge by reading professional journals and blogs, or other such things. Sometimes people think of degrees as ends, and I think this is often why women struggle when needing or wanting to find work. I like this list of ideas from a panel of women from a BYU Women in Business conference from years ago. http://byuwomeninbusiness.blogspot.com/2014/03/staying-home-staying-connected-keeping.html

And this organization might be worth a look — legitimizing and allowing people to catalog continuous learning efforts: Degreed.com

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By: Michelle https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/11/yw-lesson-why-is-it-important-for-me-to-gain-an-education-and-develop-skills/#comment-535311 Thu, 19 Nov 2015 06:42:05 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34400#comment-535311 One of my favorite articles/talks on this topic came from a BYU-I professor named Casey Hurley. http://www.byui.edu/Documents/instructional_development/Perspective/V7n2PDF/v7n2_hurley.pdf

I also really like what Mary Cook has said about this — about how education made her ‘more fit for the kingdom’ in every role she had — at home, in the Church, in her work, in the community. She gave a talk at a graduation, but only notes were available rather than the text itself. Her personal story that she shared there is mirrored pretty closely here:
https://www.lds.org/new-era/2009/04/more-fit-for-the-kingdom?lang=eng

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By: Alison Moore Smith https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/11/yw-lesson-why-is-it-important-for-me-to-gain-an-education-and-develop-skills/#comment-535308 Thu, 19 Nov 2015 04:55:03 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=34400#comment-535308 Love this, Julie.

In the 90s I taught a lesson on the flip side. I had the girls write down what they wanted to be when they grew up. At the next mutual night I brought them stats showing how much they would make (one girl wanted to be a “supermodel” so I used AVERAGE modeling wages, heh) and they had to work out a budget. Kind of hilarious, but eye-opening.

That said, when we talk about “how important their contributions are” for women OR men, I don’t think there is anything more important than raising human beings.

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