Comments on: Do Mormons Have a Duty to Vote?

By: SilverRain

SilverRain — Thu, 10 Sep 2015 12:10:03 +0000

I will vote when there is someone worth voting for.

By: Geoff - Aus

Geoff - Aus — Thu, 10 Sep 2015 07:56:39 +0000

Just for your information. In Australia voting is mandatory. But we also have optional preferential voting. Which means you can choose to either vote for the person you want to win, or vote the candidates in the order you want . So you might vote for a candidate you think will not win but you like and your vote will still count when it gets to someone who is in the final 2.

We do not vote for our prime minister. We vote for our local member, and the leader of whichever party has the most seats is leader

OUR ELECTIONS USUALLY TAKE 4 TO 6 WEEKS.

By: IDIAT

IDIAT — Wed, 09 Sep 2015 19:14:46 +0000

You may be right. Sometimes voting doesn’t make any difference. By the same token, neither does home teaching or any number of things we do in life. But, we do them anyway. I hardly think, as eternity plays out, that we’ll regret the time we spent doing so.

By: stephenchardy

stephenchardy — Wed, 09 Sep 2015 16:06:57 +0000

My son recently finished his mission in Europe. There, during the last Presidential election, the missionaries were strongly encouraged to vote. It was made a very high priority. My son thought that this was bizzare. Missionaries were, by mission policy, uninformed on political matters, and were instructed in general to be uninformed. They don’t read newspapers or watch the news, and they avoid political discussions. The general missionary policy is to be un-involved in political matters. A missionary’s political understanding would come to a halt at the time of their entrance into the MTC. My son wondered why voting was so important, as a missionary. Was it a way to bolster Mitt Romney? (My son thinks that this was the reason.) My theory is that it had to do with political representation in Utah, where it was observed that Utah would have received another US representative IF missionaries, serving outside of Utah, but still with their permanent address in Utah, were included in the census. In any case: Why ask missionaries, who are by policy uninformed, to vote?

By: jader3rd

jader3rd — Wed, 09 Sep 2015 05:13:13 +0000

Since you find the cost of the individual of going to the voting booth to be an irrationally high cost, what happens to your model for Washington state where all of the voting is by mail? We get an voter packet, and my wife and I spend all of the time we want going over all of the issues, while filling in our ballots. And then during the next trip the library drop them off.

By: Nathaniel Givens

Nathaniel Givens — Wed, 09 Sep 2015 02:09:24 +0000

Ryan-

Basically you haven’t made a case that any individual Mormon should vote; you’ve just made the case that “Mormons” should vote. You still haven’t grappled with the question of how it can be my “duty” to do something that has zero consequence.

On that point, you are absolutely correct. I'm still working on that one. When it's ready, I'll post that as a separate piece (probably at Difficult Run).

By: Ryan

Ryan — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 17:20:27 +0000

“As a libertarian, he should be more familiar with Hayek’s idea of spontaneous order (equivalent to the modern concept of emergence). ”

There’s nothing inconsistent here. In the case of elections, the individual vote has no effect on the order that emerges; an understanding of emergent order does not by itself make voting rational.

Basically you haven’t made a case that any individual Mormon should vote; you’ve just made the case that “Mormons” should vote. You still haven’t grappled with the question of how it can be my “duty” to do something that has zero consequence.

By: peterllc

peterllc — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 12:27:37 +0000

many of the problems plaguing the United States–and possibly other governments, although I am not in a place to say–are a result of elitism and corruption stemming from irrational voters acting out their irresponsible prejudices.

Sure, but don’t discount the role of election methods in influencing outcomes. For example, when Americans think “voting” they most likely assume (unconsciously) a single-member district plurality voting system, which in addition to producing clear winners and promoting geographic representation, encourages strategic voting, discourages third parties and the constituents they would represent (minorities, etc.), wastes votes and lowers voter turnout–even before the “irresponsible prejudices” of individual voters come into play.

By: Walker F

Walker F — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 07:12:53 +0000

Fair enough, Nathaniel. :-)

By: Old Man

Old Man — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 04:55:18 +0000

Brother Sky:
What about the naive belief that refusing to decide, refusing to engage in the process by advocating positions and engaging politicians through letter writing and yes, voting, that the problems you are describing will ever be resolved. What a fatalist perspective! If our tour bus, with our families on board, were headed towards a cliff because the driver fell asleep, would you at least shout at the driver, shake and try to rouse him? Would you pull him aside and attempt to drive the bus yourself? Or would you fold your arms and calmly meet your end because you’ve shouted three times already and it didn’t work, so this bus would get no further effort from you? Even Moroni strapped on his sword and repented of not fighting for survival alongside his Nephite brethren.

I quote Hugh Nibley:

“In this crucible of wickedness the true greatness of Mormon shines like a star as he calls his son to action, telling him that no matter how bad things are, we must never stop trying to do what we can to improve matters, ‘for if we should cease to labor, we should be brought under condemnation; for we have a labor to perform whilst in this tabernacle of clay’ (Moroni 9:6). In this spirit Mormon took over command of the army even when he knew that all was lost, ‘for they looked upon me as though I could deliver them from their afflictions. But behold, I was without hope’ (Mormon 5:1-2). His is the predicament of the true tragic hero: ‘I had led them, notwithstanding their wickedness, . . . and had loved them . . . with all my heart; and my soul had been poured out in prayer unto my God all the day long for them; nevertheless, it was without faith, because of the hardness of their hearts’ (Mormon 3:12).” (Since Cumorah, p. 400)

Moroni took the path of a true patriot. We are without excuse when we refuse to work for the benefit of our society and country. No matter what your perceptions are, and I do not share them, be man enough to die with your boots on.

By: Owen

Owen — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 03:10:38 +0000

Given the reactionary political views of most Mormons I know, I’m fine with them not voting much. In fact, I think them not voting is an act of Christian service to society.

By: Brother Sky

Brother Sky — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 02:16:20 +0000

Old Man:

I think you are correct that cynicism will destroy our nation as fast as narcissism. I don’t believe I’m cynical about politics, just stating that I’ve not yet encountered a politician I believe in enough to support with a vote. I think Nathaniel is right that we ought to be realistic about what can or cannot be accomplished by any given elected official. Narcissism and cynicism may destroy our nation, but so will a naive belief that simply by pulling a lever or punching a card, we’re making things better when the evidence clearly indicates the contrary.

By: Tim

Tim — Tue, 08 Sep 2015 00:18:02 +0000

Your vote may not matter much on the national level (especially if you don’t live in a swing state), but it matters very much on a local level. Many of the issues and candidates I vote on only receive a few hundred votes–and they still manage to win the election. Chances are many of us are in similar circumstances.

By: Nathaniel Givens

Nathaniel Givens — Mon, 07 Sep 2015 23:59:55 +0000

Walker F-

First, I don’t know that it’s all that easy to judge personal righteousness when it comes to political candidates.

What I am interested is mostly a repudiation of the trendy idea that what a politician does in their personal life–anything at all–doesn’t matter. I’ve got no interest in invading privacy or trying to get into fine-grained judgments of who is righteous and who is not, but what we ought to have–as a society–is simply a minimum standard for acceptable behavior for our public servants that is substantially higher than the more or less non-existent standards we have today.

And this isn’t just about moral rectitude and who is cheating on whom. Consider the fact that insider trading is, for all practical purposes, legal for congresspeople and their staff.

There’s some pretty low-hanging fruit here, and there are a lot of things we could do–culturally rather than legally–to institute the kind of incentives for our elected officials that would tend towards more decency and less outright corruption and greed.

Second, you are far too quick to dismiss the very real choices that we face on election day and the impact of those choices.

Yes, of course elections matter. They matter a great deal. But not always the elections that people think of and not always for the reasons that people think of. We simply ought to have a more realistic assessment of what is within the sphere of influence of an elected official and what is not.

By: Old Man

Old Man — Mon, 07 Sep 2015 23:55:58 +0000

Brother Sky wrote: “I don’t vote, not because of a lack of belief in civic duty, simply because were I to vote for a person, my vote would signal my belief that they could effect some sort of good in the world, and I’ve never come across a politician that I believe could do that.”

So each individual political leader is so morally bankrupt that they individually are incapable of effecting any good at all in the world? Or is the problem simply that voters like yourself are unable to perceive any possible good coming from each of these individuals? Despite the narcissism, I am able to perceive “goods” which have come from most political leaders in the U.S. today. I don’t expect the performance of a “messiah” from any political leader. I do expect a good faith effort to fulfill their oath of office. Your vote or refusal to vote hires people for specific jobs in local, state and federal government. You are complicit if you vote, but even more complicit if there is a disaster if you don’t vote. Voting as wisely as you can is a responsibility. Cynicism will destroy our nation just as fast as narcissism.