Comments on: Teaching Old Testament for Seminary https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/08/teaching-old-testament-for-seminary/ Truth Will Prevail Sun, 05 Aug 2018 23:56:25 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.9.8 By: Terry H https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/08/teaching-old-testament-for-seminary/#comment-533095 Mon, 17 Aug 2015 20:57:47 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=33459#comment-533095 Ryan. I agree 100% with Ben S. @23

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By: Ben S. https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/08/teaching-old-testament-for-seminary/#comment-533090 Mon, 17 Aug 2015 18:43:22 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=33459#comment-533090 There this one by Julie Smith :)

And this lecture (which I’m sure builds on older material by Welch).
http://www.mormoninterpreter.com/john-w-welch-on-leviticus-as-an-archetypal-temple-template/

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By: Ryan Mullen https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/08/teaching-old-testament-for-seminary/#comment-533088 Mon, 17 Aug 2015 18:31:26 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=33459#comment-533088 The seminary curriculum only spends 4 days (out of 160) on Leviticus, so I probably won’t be reading an entire commentary on it. If you know of any good, short articles, let me know.

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By: Ben S. https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/08/teaching-old-testament-for-seminary/#comment-533087 Mon, 17 Aug 2015 18:26:47 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=33459#comment-533087 Milgrom on Leviticus was free recently from Logos. (I post this stuff on Facebook…) Now it’s Hermeneia on 1 Peter.

I don’t mind the technicality, obviously, but I don’t want someone’s first exposure to a real commentary to be original language technical/criticial, since it would be pretty useless. I don’t want to scare people off.

Oh, and the new AB on Genesis? When I visited with Hendel in 2007 or so, he thought he’d be done “soon.” So, don’t hold your breath.

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By: Terry H https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/08/teaching-old-testament-for-seminary/#comment-533086 Mon, 17 Aug 2015 18:23:22 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=33459#comment-533086 It is very technical, but I’ve found (along with David Larsen) that John J. Collins’ Daniel is very good (even for lay people). I thought Nickelsburg’s 1 Enoch (2 vols. w/2d with VanderKam) was excellent as well. While there isn’t a Genesis volume, you could kind of say that about the Anchor Bible since Speiser is over 60 years old and do we have any idea when Hendel’s update will be done? I also understand there’s a new ICC Genesis in preparation from John Day.

Of course, none of these will be super helpful for a seminary teacher. Perhaps the Eerdman’s Commentary on the Bible eds. Dunn and Rogerson is something that would be easier. It does have some technical material, but is aimed more for an educated lay reader. It also includes a short commentary on 1 Enoch by Daniel Olsen (and the Margaret Barker Isaiah is interesting as well).

For a short, readable commentary on Leviticus, I found Milgrom’s Continental Commentary which adapts his three volume AB on Leviticus is more helpful.

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By: Ben S. https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/08/teaching-old-testament-for-seminary/#comment-533084 Mon, 17 Aug 2015 17:20:32 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=33459#comment-533084 I’ve only used Holladay on Jeremiah, but I liked it. It has no Genesis volume yet, though.
As I recall, it’s too technical and critical-oriented for lay people with no language training.

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By: Terry H https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/08/teaching-old-testament-for-seminary/#comment-533074 Mon, 17 Aug 2015 00:34:37 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=33459#comment-533074 Ben S. I went back and revisited your list that was linked for recommended reading. I see you mentioned the JPS Torah and Anchor Bible Commentaries. Wondering how you like the Hermeneia? Nickelsburg in his first volume on 1 Enoch cites Hugh Nibley in a footnote and credits Mormons with being one of two people who believe that a book of Enoch is part of the canon (obviously referring to the Enoch chapters in the P of GP). Then for more on Enoch, the 2d volume of Jeff Bradshaw’s and David Larsen’s In God’s Image and Likeness takes on the rest of Moses and then goes to Genesis and the Tower of Babel. http://ldsmag.com/article-1-14240. Hopefully, Jeff will continue with a volume on Abraham, then Jacob (which I believe is his favorite) and Joseph.

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By: Clark Goble https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/08/teaching-old-testament-for-seminary/#comment-533073 Fri, 14 Aug 2015 23:14:55 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=33459#comment-533073 Whoops. Sorry, was replying to a different thread in the wrong window. I shouldn’t reply while sending out FedEx.

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By: Ben S https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/08/teaching-old-testament-for-seminary/#comment-533072 Fri, 14 Aug 2015 23:08:20 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=33459#comment-533072 Clark, I’m not sure what you’re responding to. I don’t see any comments from women.

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By: Clark Goble https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/08/teaching-old-testament-for-seminary/#comment-533071 Fri, 14 Aug 2015 22:54:52 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=33459#comment-533071 Ben S, I suspect she means more interesting things restored that end up lining up with the OT in a way that perhaps regular people (including GAs) aren’t aware. That said I think a lot of LDS stuff that lines up is often more interpretations of the OT era from late antiquity that may not line up with what scholars think was going on in the time attested by the OT.

To give an example so people can say I’m fixated on seer stones, Joseph’s explanation of the U&T has some interesting parallels to some ideas from late antiquity – especially Josephus and the DSS. It’s not exact but surprisingly close. But this is quite at odds with the typical view of the U&T of the priests from before this era (where typically they’re seen as lots one throws out rather than someone indicating letters).

I think we thus have to be careful. I think sometimes we latch on to interpretations of pre-Christian Israel that line up with our views because they line up with those views. However often those interpretations are fairly controversial at best in terms of how the OT itself is viewed as history. A subtle but important distinctions. (Of course some might say that the scholarly reconstruction, often from extremely limited evidence, might be problematic – however one might think that one has then ceased really appealing to the historic OT literature)

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By: Ben S https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/08/teaching-old-testament-for-seminary/#comment-533070 Fri, 14 Aug 2015 21:31:07 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=33459#comment-533070 Context is useful for understanding how the Israelites at the time would have understood their own traditions, stories, and scripture.

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By: Ben S https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/08/teaching-old-testament-for-seminary/#comment-533069 Fri, 14 Aug 2015 21:29:04 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=33459#comment-533069 I’ve definitely pushed Enns, on multiple occasions.

-“much OT context that strengthened my faith that our modern prophets are reliable interpreters of the Old Testament”

I don’t think they are, but I also don’t think they are supposed to be.
Prophets throughout scripture are largely focused on their contemporary challenges and issues, and (whether knowingly or unknowingly) reinterpret the past to apply to the present.

For LDS who are aware of this, tension arises, because we tend not to distinguish between contextual interpretation (meaning, “what did this mean in its earliest context?”) and recontextual interpretation, which ignores context in order to apply to a new situation. This shouldn’t surprise us too much, since Nephi blatantly announces that he’s reinterpreting Isaiah for his people. As my friend Carl pointed out, you don’t need to “liken” something unless you’re applying it to something different than it was originally for. It’s a seminary scripture, 1 Nephi 19:23. This is precisely what the New Testament authors do, as well as Jesus, the Dead Sea Scroll authors, the Old Testament within the Old Testament and so on for a long time. Contextual interpretation develops fairly late in Christianity and Judaism.

So while I appreciate greater contextual awareness from our doctrinal and spiritual leaders, I generally don’t expect it and don’t consider the lack to be a prophetic failing.

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By: Ryan Mullen https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/08/teaching-old-testament-for-seminary/#comment-533068 Fri, 14 Aug 2015 21:19:26 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=33459#comment-533068 I freely admit that my solution may not work for everyone. It’s helped me tremendously, though, and my respect for Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, etc. has only grown as I shed my childhood notions of de facto prophetic infallibility. These guys were as flawed as the rest of us, and yet the church they founded is still growing, challenging and improving people’s lives.

As for your questions on context, I am interested in Ben’s answer as well.

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By: Jake Cox https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/08/teaching-old-testament-for-seminary/#comment-533067 Fri, 14 Aug 2015 21:07:48 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=33459#comment-533067 Ryan Mullen, I accept your solution as a possibility. It’s hard for me to change my way of thinking there, but maybe that is the right solution. Even so, it forces me to ask, where does context really help me? Matthew (and his portrayal of Jesus) uses OT scriptures in ways that look (to me) like they’re wildly out of context. Many Mormon scholars now treat Nephi’s use of Isaiah 29 as a pesher rather than an actual explanation of Isaiah 29 (contrary to the presumably-McConkie position taken the LDS headnote). And I guess that’s okay. But it also makes me wonder why we instinctively value the original context if the scriptures themselves suggest that the original context is, perhaps, meant to be disregarded.

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By: Ryan Mullen https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/08/teaching-old-testament-for-seminary/#comment-533066 Fri, 14 Aug 2015 20:16:52 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=33459#comment-533066 “the more context I learn, the less prophetic our modern prophets look.”

I’ve faced this problem, too. I concluded that my initial conception of “prophetic” just didn’t jive well with reality. In other words, since I have a spiritual witness that Joseph Smith was a prophet, however he behaved is how a prophet behaves. I needed to change my definition of a prophet, rather than judge Joseph Smith as failing to hit the mark.

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