Comments on: Explain Maine https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/08/explain-maine/ Truth Will Prevail Sun, 05 Aug 2018 23:56:25 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.9.8 By: Juan Taza https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/08/explain-maine/#comment-536425 Tue, 23 Feb 2016 05:23:30 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=33784#comment-536425 Can we all stop splitting hairs over the confidence intervals of these samples and will someone just please tell me which ward in the Portland Metro area has a decent size primary and supply of YW babysitters? Moving up there from Boston with the fam in June. Gracias…

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By: RW https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/08/explain-maine/#comment-533319 Tue, 01 Sep 2015 04:50:15 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=33784#comment-533319 Rule of small numbers. It is easier to get outliers and hot spots when dealing with smaller populations. Main and Alaska have relatively small populations so that a relatively small bump of converts could create the appearance of abnormality. This is a well known phenomenon. I would consider this first before wondering about special circumstances.

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By: Clark Goble https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/08/explain-maine/#comment-533258 Thu, 27 Aug 2015 19:51:25 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=33784#comment-533258 Yes, but there are people who can’t attend who I’d call Mormon. People not coming due to a job or illness. Further I’d say even people semi-active who still consider themselves Mormon should probably be considered Mormon. It’s the people who really aren’t Mormon in any significant way but who might be on the records who probably shouldn’t count.

Part of the issue is Mormons consider a lot more activities to be required than nearly any other religion does. We’re definitely a high demand religion – far more so than others where people often rarely attend services.

Still going by Pew (which I admit I have some concerns with) 82% say religion is very important in their lives, 95% say very or somewhat important, 83% pray daily, and 77% attend church weekly. 80% believe Joseph saw God. 69% put their religious commitment as high, 28% as medium. That’s ridiculously higher than any other group.

Probably the key statistic relevant to Mormon self-identification as a strong Mormon is temple recommend. Pew has 65% holding a recommend (with 85% for college graduates). When you realize that included all people 18 or over, that would include a lot of people not yet with their endowments taken out. So that’s extremely high.

So retention if it’s self-identified retention still tends to be tied with very high belief. For instance of those self-identified 94% believe the President of the Church is a prophet of God, 94% believe Jesus and the Father are separate beings, and 95% believe in eternal marriage in the temple. 77% believe wholeheartedly in all teachings. (Which is pretty remarkable when you stop to think about it – even if people are probably exaggerating a little in their replies)

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By: Frank Mcintyre https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/08/explain-maine/#comment-533256 Thu, 27 Aug 2015 17:42:09 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=33784#comment-533256 Clark, my thoughts on retention are similar to yours. But i guess retention in this case is pretty loose since you don’t actually have to attend to call yourself Mormon.

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By: Clark Goble https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/08/explain-maine/#comment-533219 Tue, 25 Aug 2015 21:19:28 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=33784#comment-533219 Frank, I get a figure close to ? myself. However it is an extrapolation. ARIS is looking at those over 18. The rolls are those over 8. So they are looking at very different populations. One can make a few assumptions to guess how to shift from ARIS to the broader issue of those baptized and believing. It’s an estimate and I wouldn’t put much stock in it, but I attempted such a calculation a few months back. It was a post on Mormon retention and I figured would one get a retention rate of around 65%. Although there are various assumptions that might make the actual rate higher.

I must confess that a 65% rate for people on the rolls considering themselves Mormon seems quite high for me given how many converts fall away within a few months of baptism. (In my opinion most aren’t really converted with a testimony, although of course a new member typically has a weak testimony and many wards don’t do a good job nurturing them)

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By: Frank McIntyre https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/08/explain-maine/#comment-533215 Tue, 25 Aug 2015 19:47:42 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=33784#comment-533215 Tim and Clark,

OK, suppose ARIS’ 1.4% is right that is about 2/3 of members on the rolls self identifying as Mormon (I really doubt that 80% of people on our rolls self identify as Mormon), I may be shooting low on self-ID. So accounting for that, more than 20% chance of a 2% report off a base of under 1% (a Maine statistical glitch).

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By: Clark Goble https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/08/explain-maine/#comment-533181 Mon, 24 Aug 2015 21:27:19 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=33784#comment-533181 ARIS tends to give a lower figure than Pew. 1.4% for self-reporting. Note however there are important differences between the statistics – especially on how younger people are counted. Without looking it up some only count those over 18 in the poll while others include youth.

I’ve also noted that there are some reasons to be questioning of Pew data. I think some of their statistics just seem dubious such as their rate of tithing paying.

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By: Tim https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/08/explain-maine/#comment-533175 Mon, 24 Aug 2015 18:51:15 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=33784#comment-533175 Frank, nationwide church statistics say 2 percent and

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints_membership_statistics#United_States

and PEW says 1.6 or 1.7 percent this time and last time

http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/#religions

so your “1/3 to 2/3” estimate seems low for the PEW survey. Maybe 4/5 or 5/6 is more like it. And it looks like the 2% was already after PEW’s rounding (so there could have been only 5 Mormons in the sample).

By the way, if you look at state by state numbers, you’ll find a number of states where the PEW survey reports a higher percentage of Mormons than the official church statistics, including Maine, Virginia and West Virginia. Nothing very statistically surprising though.

http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/religious-tradition/mormon/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints_membership_statistics_(United_States)

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By: Christian J https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/08/explain-maine/#comment-533174 Mon, 24 Aug 2015 15:17:40 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=33784#comment-533174 WV is NOT DC spill over. There was some early missionary work in that state. The converts just stayed.

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By: Frank Mcintyre https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/08/explain-maine/#comment-533173 Mon, 24 Aug 2015 14:46:21 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=33784#comment-533173 I vote for random chance.

If there are 10k members in Maine according to Kaimi’s link, I would guess only a 1/3 to 2/3 would self identify as Mormon. So that puts Maine at under 0.5% in a poll of self identified Mormons. If that is the true probability, what is the chance you draw six or more Mormons from a random sample of 300 Maine residents? According to this calculator, plug in 0.005 for the probability of a hit and 303 trials and you get about 0.4% chance of this happening by random chance. Which is quite unlikely. But there are 50 states, so you get about 50 chances for a weirdo thing. Waving my hands around for this bit, 0.4%* 50 is 20% so there is about a 20% chance that at least one state would end up looking this odd. So it’s weird, but not super weird. If I am low on Maine self identification rates then it would be even less weird (or vice versa).

If they do the survey again in five years and it happens again then either their survey method is off or Maine has an inexplicable Mormon boomlet.

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By: Clark Goble https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/08/explain-maine/#comment-533155 Fri, 21 Aug 2015 18:41:57 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=33784#comment-533155 Kaimi, I think polls are useful since members of record isn’t the same as self-identifying members. There are also issues of how children affect the numbers.

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By: Kaimi https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/08/explain-maine/#comment-533154 Fri, 21 Aug 2015 18:39:40 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=33784#comment-533154 Why use a sampling when we have total numbers?

According to the official stats from the LDS newsroom, there are about 10,000 church members in Maine. (http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/facts-and-statistics/country/united-states/state/maine ) This is out of a population of about 1.3 million (per Wikipedia). That comes out to slightly under 1 percent.

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By: Don https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/08/explain-maine/#comment-533149 Fri, 21 Aug 2015 12:20:39 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=33784#comment-533149 As someone who regularly visits Maine I found this question very interesting. We have found the people of Maine to be really great people, if that has anything to do with it. As for West Virginia, there are a lot of Mormons in the eastern part of the state. They’re far enough away from DC to be free of the internally created smog, but close enough that they can commute to work if they need to.

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By: Katya https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/08/explain-maine/#comment-533130 Wed, 19 Aug 2015 17:37:10 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=33784#comment-533130 I lived in central Maine for 6 years (from 2007-2013) and I wouldn’t have said the Church was particularly large there, but my first thought on seeing Julie’s question was to wonder if the survey was including RLDS/CoC members, who have had a presence in Maine since the 1870s. (You can read a very brief history here: http://penobscotmarinemuseum.org/PMM-Reader/latter-day-saints-church-beals-me-41/ )

I went to the Community of Christ website to see how large their current presence in Maine is, and they list 10 meetinghouses, plus a mission center. LDS maps lists around 30 meetinghouses in Maine, so 10 additional meetinghouses is a significant number, although I don’t know how large the average Maine CoC congregation is (or how it compares in size with Maine LDS wards and branches).

Others have made good points above about sample sizes and cutoff points, so the CoC presence may simply be one of several factors that nudged the responses above 2%. (Of course this also presupposes that CoC members would self-identify as “Mormon”; I don’t know enough about that community to gauge how likely that would be.)

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By: the other Marie https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/08/explain-maine/#comment-533121 Wed, 19 Aug 2015 03:29:18 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=33784#comment-533121 Descendants of the many converts from the Cochranite movement?

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