Comments on: A Metaphor & a Plea

By: fred

fred — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 02:36:19 +0000

They think they need a devil to condemn in order to keep people in the pews. Christianity has done this for centuries and so has the mormon hierarchy.

By: rogerdhansen

rogerdhansen — Sun, 19 Apr 2015 18:04:42 +0000

After recently viewing the movie “Woman in Gold,” I wondered why humanity continues to want to marginalize particular groups, either ethnic, religious, gender, etc.? Haven’t we had enough of witting and unwitting persecutions, teenage suicides, banishments, disownments, etc.? Why do we continue to preach that some members need to live celibate lives? Isn’t that anti-family. The LDS Church is headed down the same path that it trod with the black priesthood/temple issue. And all know how that was resolved. Do we need to just wait for a new generation of GAs?

By: numfickle

numfickle — Tue, 14 Apr 2015 15:01:36 +0000

http://www.sltrib.com/news/2396365-155/mormon-church-joins-other-faiths-in

By: Cameron N.

Cameron N. — Thu, 09 Apr 2015 16:46:33 +0000

Christian, we admire your courage and openness. I feel like you stretching a bit, but empathize with feelings toward the word choice of ‘counterfeit.’ I do think that word is accurate in describing the promotion of alternate sexual behaviors, but perhaps a more constructive word would be ‘thorn in the flesh.’ How do you feel about that one?

By: N. W. Clerk

N. W. Clerk — Thu, 09 Apr 2015 13:30:46 +0000

Alexander Pope’s lines about vice’s mien have been quoted 13 times in General Conference. The OP seems to have taken that diagnosis and turned it into a strategy.

By: SilverRain

SilverRain — Thu, 09 Apr 2015 02:27:36 +0000

Josh Smith: don’t be confused. A “Mormon” might build theological basis for homosexuality, but not if they want to be mainstream. Even if Joseph Smith was sealed conjugally (which I have never seen a shred of evidence to that effect, but I’m sure there are more avid historians who can contribute actual documented evidence,) current prophets of the CoJCoLdS speak unequivocally against it.

And the research I’ve done paints a very different picture of the early understanding of the sealing ordinance. Just because someone tried to build a case, doesn’t mean they had any ground to stand on.

By: Josh Smith

Josh Smith — Wed, 08 Apr 2015 23:27:24 +0000

Last comment. I promise.

Thank you SilverRain. Your comment, along with 10 free minutes, inspired a Google search. “Was Joseph Smith sealed to other men?” I really only had time to skim quickly.

There is a Wikipedia article on “The Law of Adoption.” Apparently back in the late 1970’s and early 80’s gay Mormons argued that this doctrine provided a theological basis for the sealing of homosexual men. Here I thought I had an original idea today. Nope. Nothing new coming out of my mind. But, let it be written that I came to the idea on my own, without any impetus from the 1970’s and 1980’s.

I’m sure there is other interesting material out there. This morning I woke up thinking LDS thought and homosexuality were completely, inevitably at odds. Now, I’m not so sure. A thoughtful Mormon may be able to build a theological foundation for homosexuality within Mormonism.

That’s my last comment. Thanks for the thoughtful post, Christian. I’ll keep reading posts, but I’m done.

By: SilverRain

SilverRain — Wed, 08 Apr 2015 20:39:10 +0000

Also, the sealing of men to men practiced in Joseph’s time is dynastic, not conjugal. You have to delve into the history, but the ordinance is not seen the exact way we perceive sealing now.

By: SilverRain

SilverRain — Wed, 08 Apr 2015 20:35:29 +0000

When two women are sealed to one man, they are not sealed to each other.

By: Ben

Ben — Wed, 08 Apr 2015 18:55:43 +0000

This and many similar discussions invoke rhetoric of “authenticity” which is far from helpful or clear. I’ve found this a good discussion.
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/05/in-search-of-the-true-self/?_r=0

By: Josh Smith

Josh Smith — Wed, 08 Apr 2015 18:38:13 +0000

And Frank, I’m sorry about being an ass. People have predispositions towards all kinds of things. Unfortunately, I was born a natural ass hole.

Though I’m absolutely sincere about the questions I posed in #55.

By: Frank Pellett

Frank Pellett — Wed, 08 Apr 2015 18:26:11 +0000

Josh Smith (#52) – yep, quite aware of the predominant teachings about it. I just don’t buy it. I don’t believe men are eternally destined to be above women.

And you’re not even close to starting an ulcer. I rather enjoy learning new things about our history, which is why it helps to work in the Church History Library, even if as just a techie.

By: Josh Smith

Josh Smith — Wed, 08 Apr 2015 18:23:30 +0000

Mark B., I offered only questions. Do you have answers?

By: Mark B.

Mark B. — Wed, 08 Apr 2015 18:20:29 +0000

That last comment reminds me of Mary McCarthy’s statement about Lillian Hellman: “every word she writes is a lie, including ‘and’ and ‘the.'”

There is one exception, though: “troll.”

By: Josh Smith

Josh Smith — Wed, 08 Apr 2015 18:19:22 +0000

Frank (#52): Google “patriarchal order” and see what pops up.

Christian (#48): Please don’t interpret my comments as a personal attack in any way. Above all in this discussion, I don’t want to inadvertently offend another. Except maybe Frank. If Frank gets an ulcer tonight trying to figure out if Joseph Smith was “sealed” to another man, I’m okay with that. :-)