Comments on: For Zion – Part 3 https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/02/for-zion-chapters-2-and-3/ Truth Will Prevail Sun, 05 Aug 2018 23:56:25 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.9.8 By: James https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/02/for-zion-chapters-2-and-3/#comment-530399 Fri, 20 Feb 2015 15:25:50 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32791#comment-530399 Thanks for the clarification, Joe. Also, this series is helping me understand the book better my second time through. Thanks to all involved.

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By: joespencer https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/02/for-zion-chapters-2-and-3/#comment-530398 Fri, 20 Feb 2015 14:27:49 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32791#comment-530398 A quick point of clarification, mirrorrorrim –

I take faith to be oriented to the past in that it’s oriented to an announcement regarding the future. But that means that faith is trust regarding the future through trust in the past—in a past announcement (an angelic word, a prophetic statement, a visit from God, what have you). Paul, I think, makes this quite clear. It’s not that Abraham just believes for no reason that things will work out. It’s that he trusts the word of God given to him in the past: your seed will be like the stars. Faith is oriented to a past event that announces a different future.

So faith is certainly bound up with the future, but it’s not a matter of trusting in that future itself. It’s a matter, rather, of trusting the divine word concerning the future that was given in the past. The attitude one develops toward the future event announced is one of hope.

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By: mirrorrorrim https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/02/for-zion-chapters-2-and-3/#comment-530395 Fri, 20 Feb 2015 02:27:51 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32791#comment-530395 I unfortunately have to strongly disagree in a dichotomy between faith as pointing backward into the past and hope pointing forward into the future. I just don’t see Paul as saying that. Paul says just the reverse:

“And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara’s womb:
“He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
“And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.”

Paul’s central argument, starting all the way back in Chapter 1, is that it is faith, not the law, that saves us, and Abraham is his central example, that before Abraham was circumcised, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.” Abraham’s faith was believing that God could give him children, despite his and Sarah’s advanced age—believing in a future event.

Paul isn’t drawing a distinction between faith and hope, he is drawing one between faith and works. Works, not faith, is what relies on events in the past. Faith and hope both, according to Paul, are future-looking to God.

Sorry to so completely disagree with Mr. Spencer.

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By: Robert C. https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/02/for-zion-chapters-2-and-3/#comment-530353 Wed, 18 Feb 2015 11:13:07 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32791#comment-530353 It’s been a few months since I read these chapters, but this strikes me as a fantastically clear summary of some very complex ideas — kudos!

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By: David https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/02/for-zion-chapters-2-and-3/#comment-530352 Wed, 18 Feb 2015 09:10:32 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32791#comment-530352 Sheesh! For an “amature” this is incredible. Very thought provoking. Thanks for sharing.

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