Comments on: The Influence of Law on Mormon Theology in the 20th Century https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/the-influence-of-law-on-mormon-theology-in-the-20th-century/ Truth Will Prevail Sun, 05 Aug 2018 23:56:25 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.9.8 By: Terry H https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/the-influence-of-law-on-mormon-theology-in-the-20th-century/#comment-529568 Tue, 20 Jan 2015 21:42:12 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32588#comment-529568 Raymond, I say this as someone who would like to see a Romney Presidency for many reasons, but the issue I mentioned in #2 would likely impact the church more negatively than the visa problems you indicate. Of course, I might be wrong too.

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By: Raymond Takashi Swenson https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/the-influence-of-law-on-mormon-theology-in-the-20th-century/#comment-529566 Tue, 20 Jan 2015 21:13:21 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32588#comment-529566 In Japan, it took World War II to open the country to effective proselyting again, after the mission was closed in 1924. Somewhat ironically, American racism toward the Japanese, which resulted in the 1924 law barring new immigration from Asia, supported at the time by FDR, and was exploited in WW II propaganda and in FDR through Executive Order 9066 imprisoning over 100,000 Japanese Americans for three years, without any trial, was mitigated enormously when tens of thousands of American servicemen were stationed in Occupied Japan and became friends with Japanese, including marrying Japanese women (like my own parents), forcing the US to amend the law and allow new Japanese immigration. It also helped when the Korean War broke out and the US needed Japanese support.

It required pretty basic changes in government law and policy to enable the Church to proselyte even in Span and Italy, let alone in the former Warsaw Pact nations and Mongolia.

Sadly, there were also changes for the worse, when Lebanon and Iran dissolved into chaos and repressive regimes, ending Mormon missionary work in those countries.

I can’t help but think that if Romney were president, it would help overcome some of the visa problems that some European nations give to our missionaries. I remember Mike Young, when he was chairman of the US religious freedom commission, relating that he was told that a bureaucrat in Belgium was not prejudiced against Mormons, he hated all religious people equally.

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By: Mike Bennion https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/the-influence-of-law-on-mormon-theology-in-the-20th-century/#comment-529548 Mon, 19 Jan 2015 20:23:49 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32588#comment-529548 Thanks for this essay Nate. I am teaching a class on US Constitutional and Legal history at a local college and was looking at using Reynolds v. U.S. as part of the curriculum, and using your essay of several years ago. This will round out some of what I want to cover.

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By: Nate Oman https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/the-influence-of-law-on-mormon-theology-in-the-20th-century/#comment-529547 Mon, 19 Jan 2015 19:18:23 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32588#comment-529547 Also, Wilfried, let me again publicly thank you for your help with this project. You’ve really helped my thinking on these issues.

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By: Nate Oman https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/the-influence-of-law-on-mormon-theology-in-the-20th-century/#comment-529546 Mon, 19 Jan 2015 19:15:19 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32588#comment-529546 Wilfried: The short answer is obviously that I don’t know the answer to either of your questions. You have a better sense of whether the political affiliation of top LDS leaders matters that much abroad. My sense is that it probably doesn’t. More salient is the fact that the Church has taken conservative positions on a few key issues in American cultural politics, namely abortion and same-sex marriage. I doubt that the Church is going to shift on either issue. My bet is that SSM will cease to be terribly salient in the next couple of years. Within a year, I expect that the SCOTUS will declare a constitutional right to SSM and that will largely end the political debate in the United States. A much more interesting question would be the international effect of Romney either in the past or the future. The good news is that it shows that Mormons can be well-educated, effective leaders. The bad news is that it associates the Church with particular partisan policies. Coupled with this the fact that the biggest challenge that the Church faces in many places is not so much hostility as total ignorance as to its existence.

The second question, it seems to me, will vary a lot by region. How the Church is supposed to operate an effective missionary program in Western or Eastern Europe is a mystery to me. My research suggested that the place where Mormons were most likely to be subject to legal harassment was in Russia. Western Europe can also be a legally hostile environment, although it is obviously far, far better than Russia. But the real problems, as you point out, are often less a matter of legal negotiation — although as an American lawyer the extent to which European legal systems are comfortable regulating public expression worries me — than cultural negotiation. My bet is that we will gradually see a certain amount of devolution and regionalization of missionary work. My bet is that it will also be slower and less radical than it probably ought to be. The real problem is that the Church institutionally is pretty uncomfortable with failure, which means we are probably too risk adverse and have too little variation and experimentation. Ideally, I’d like to see a higher tolerance for bad ideas and more variation. Then we see what works, reinforce what does and discard what doesn’t. I tend to think that we are better off fostering evolution rather than trying to plan success.

Who really knows, though?

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By: Wilfried https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/the-influence-of-law-on-mormon-theology-in-the-20th-century/#comment-529543 Mon, 19 Jan 2015 18:07:13 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32588#comment-529543 Excellent article, Nate.

It is certainly true that the church has been entering into a more quietist and non-confrontational mode of interacting with governments. Two remarks:

– To what extent can the fact that the majority of top church leaders are still openly affiliated with the Republican party continue to influence, in other countries, a perception of Mormon political involvement or at least of strong leanings to certain political choices with international impact? (cf. also the affiliation of Mormon members of Congress). In media abroad the church has a strong image of being part of the American Christian right: its involvement against same-sex marriage has not been helpful in that respect, particularly in countries where SSM is legal. Can we expect the church to further “back off”, confirming a continuation of the movement you analyzed?

– Because of a perceived threat of Islamization, the West (in particular Europe, but also other regions) is showing a heightened sensitivity to the detrimental effects of conversion to a foreign religion. Expansive religions have never been welcome in countries with their own culturo-religious traditions. With thousands of Mormon missionaries trying to convert people in such countries, could we expect more governmental and ecclesiastical opposition (like in Greece, Russia…)? The church has already shown it backs off in countries like Israel. At the same time Islamic sensitivity is increasing the awareness of “insult” and “blasphemy” when it comes to trying to convert others actively. These seem to be new elements to be taken into account as the church grapples with the legal diversity abroad.

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By: Sym https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/the-influence-of-law-on-mormon-theology-in-the-20th-century/#comment-529538 Mon, 19 Jan 2015 16:44:59 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32588#comment-529538 Excited to read this. As another Brit LDS, we ALSO got a 9/11 condolence card! I used to take offence when fellow Englishmen said my faith was American, but then I went to BYU and had a chance to study Mormonism in historical context and realised how right they were. Still feel weird about the 9/11 card. Or, should I say, 11/9.

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By: Hedgehog https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/the-influence-of-law-on-mormon-theology-in-the-20th-century/#comment-529532 Mon, 19 Jan 2015 09:27:57 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32588#comment-529532 “The Church has been unable to shed its widespread association with America in general and, to a lesser extent, United States policy.”
Yup. I recall at the time of the 9/11 attacks a condolence card was delivered to our local church building, explaining that the sender understood we were an American church. It was very kind of them, but at the same time made me, as a Brit, feel uncomfortable.

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By: Terry H https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/the-influence-of-law-on-mormon-theology-in-the-20th-century/#comment-529530 Mon, 19 Jan 2015 04:34:42 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32588#comment-529530 OK. I’m back. Very well put. I found the information about the legal challenges outside the U.S. fascinating. I’ve been saying for two years that a Romney Presidency would NOT have been good for the world growth of the Church in some areas. The idea of a Mormon President authorizing drone strikes against Muslims (not that there’s anything wrong with that . . .) would cause quite a bit of unrest and the Church would likely be removed from India, Indonesia, Pakistan and China. I hope more people read this.

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By: Terry H https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/the-influence-of-law-on-mormon-theology-in-the-20th-century/#comment-529528 Mon, 19 Jan 2015 04:05:05 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32588#comment-529528 Great. Reading it already. Thanks, Nate.

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