Comments on: Most Mormons https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/most-mormons/ Truth Will Prevail Sun, 05 Aug 2018 23:56:25 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.9.8 By: jude49 https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/most-mormons/#comment-529624 Fri, 23 Jan 2015 02:28:19 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32580#comment-529624 In my experience, many Mormons…

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By: Alison Moore Smith https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/most-mormons/#comment-529623 Thu, 22 Jan 2015 16:13:33 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32580#comment-529623 Kristine, as someone who is often “accused” of playing both sides, I don’t think “mainstream” is used for blunt force trauma. :) I think it is usually just definitionally accurate with regard to less progressive views.

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By: Kristine https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/most-mormons/#comment-529598 Wed, 21 Jan 2015 18:07:16 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32580#comment-529598 Jonathan, since you have cleverly skewered Mormon “liberals,” I look forward to the follow-up in which you decry the way more “conservative” Mormons use “mainstream Mormonism” as a bludgeon against perceived heretics. As in “Well, you may believe that, but I prefer to stay within mainstream Mormonism.”

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By: McLean https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/most-mormons/#comment-529589 Wed, 21 Jan 2015 15:39:43 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32580#comment-529589 rameuptom & others —

Do we have any kind of reliable estimates of active and engaged members? I get that by the raw membership numbers, those of us in the USA are outnumbered by those without, but my impression is that congregations outside the US are, on average, much less active which makes me think that the church is still very much a “US church.” However, I don’t have any kind of numbers (wild guesses or reliable estimates) to back up this impression.

Apologies for the threadjack, but my curiosity overcame my internet etiquette.

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By: Jonathan Green https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/most-mormons/#comment-529583 Wed, 21 Jan 2015 14:59:48 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32580#comment-529583 Yes, Nate, yes!

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By: Nate https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/most-mormons/#comment-529567 Tue, 20 Jan 2015 21:34:20 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32580#comment-529567 I’m going to give this a try:

Most Mormons are conservative, but I’m liberal:
I’m liberal, but I like being surrounded by conservatives in my church. It’s good to have a challenge.

Most Mormons are against same-sex marriage, but not me:
I’m for same-sex marriage but I like belonging to a church that reminds me how important family is.

Most Mormons believe the General Authorities are practically perfect, but I don’t.
I don’t think our leaders are perfect, but I admire the respect and reverence our church members give to our leaders.

Most Mormons believe the Bible and Book of Mormon is historically literal, but I don’t.
I don’t think many of the scriptures are historically literal, but I admire the great faith in our church, a faith that wouldn’t be possible without literal belief.

OK, now that I’ve tried that exercise, I can see the point: We should give the church and its membership a little more respect, admiration, and credit, even if we don’t believe everything Most Mormons believe.

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By: Travis https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/most-mormons/#comment-529536 Mon, 19 Jan 2015 14:31:39 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32580#comment-529536 rameumpton, while it’s true that most Mormons (statistically speaking, not as a rhetorical device) live outside the US and speak a language other than English as their native tongue, it’s not true that most Mormons speak Spanish. Something around 30% of Church members are native Spanish speakers, depending on how you read the statistics.

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By: Left Field https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/most-mormons/#comment-529534 Mon, 19 Jan 2015 14:03:47 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32580#comment-529534 Wasn’t there a study a couple of years ago, that concluded that atheists and Mormons were the top two groups in knowledge of the Bible? But I do agree with Jonathan that in “Mormons don’t understand the NT,” there is an implied and unstated “…compared with all the people who understand it better.” I would guess that in the population at large, Mormons would do pretty well, stacked up against all the people who don’t know the Philippians from the Philippines.

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By: christiankimball https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/most-mormons/#comment-529526 Mon, 19 Jan 2015 02:40:08 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32580#comment-529526 I especially like “Yes, I’m a Mormon, and this is how I live my religion.” and now I hope I’ve never used “most Mormons”. (Failing memory can be useful.)

But there’s another direction to come at this. I have found myself saying “I am a Mormon but they would probably disagree if they really knew me”. For “they” one can read “the church” or “the cultural norm of Mormon society” or even “most Mormons”.

I know I’m not alone in feeling that way. I suspect it’s pretty common. One response is the big tent approach. Tell me I’m wrong, that in fact I do belong and my feelings are invalid. But right or wrong, the feeling is real and I’m looking for the politically correct way to express that feeling.

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By: ji https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/most-mormons/#comment-529525 Mon, 19 Jan 2015 01:34:50 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32580#comment-529525 Bryan (no. 23) — I don’t know what you mean by “the ‘knowledgeable’ camp” — but I do hope that after all our efforts in seminaries and Sunday Schools and personal scripture readings that Latter-day Saints will develop a basic familiarity with the persons and stories in the New Testament, and a sense of respect for and value in the New Testament. The persons are so genuinely human, and the stories so real and powerful, and true doctrine can be learned so much easier, by simply understanding the people and the stories.

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By: Bryan in VA https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/most-mormons/#comment-529520 Sun, 18 Jan 2015 22:09:35 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32580#comment-529520 ji #22, Since I’ve read Misquoting Jesus by Bart Ehrman do I get to be in the “Mormon who understands the New Testament” column? What’s the criteria for being in the “knowledgeable” camp?

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By: ji https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/most-mormons/#comment-529515 Sun, 18 Jan 2015 19:06:12 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32580#comment-529515 Well, “most Mormons” don’t understand the New Testament — not from a scholarly viewpoint, but not even the most basic familiarity with the persons or stories, and not from a sense of respect or seeing value. I think “our” lack of familiarity with and respect for the New Testament works against us as we try to assert our Christianity. I see the point of the original posting, and I can see some basis for humor, but this one is too real for my comfort.

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By: Tim https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/most-mormons/#comment-529514 Sun, 18 Jan 2015 17:06:14 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32580#comment-529514 Having spent years in both the Wasatch Front area and in Eastern Idaho, I know that not all parts of the Mormon-dense regions of the Western U.S. are the same. I don’t pretend to know what it’s like to live in Rexburg, but, at least in some sections of Eastern Idaho, being a feminist, liberal, or Democrat Mormon is incredibly lonely. The sections of Utah I’ve lived in (Provo, conservative suburbs) were in fact quite different–and not quite so lonely. So there’s quite a bit of variation even inside the Mormon Corridor.

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By: Jonathan Green https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/most-mormons/#comment-529512 Sun, 18 Jan 2015 16:40:28 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32580#comment-529512 Thanks for the comments. This post was one of the first things I wrote for T&S in 2007, but it didn’t seem publishable at the time, although I never could just forget about it.

As some of the comments point out, ‘Most Mormons’ is a term sometimes used to discuss or critique cultural issues of the Mormon-dense regions of the western U.S. One thing that changed between 2007 and when I revised the post this week was that I had a chance to live in Rexburg. Can I claim to have experienced life as a feminist in Rexburg? Probably not. I fit some definitions (agreeing with the “radical notion that women are people”), but don’t fit enough others that I shouldn’t attempt to claim that category, certainly not just to I can tell Kristine A that I have so been a feminist in Rexburg. I’ve been a Democrat and an Obama voter in Rexburg, which is not the same thing but as close as I can get. One thing I gained from the experience was seeing that life in a predominantly Mormon area was in fact noticeably different from other places I’d lived, both inside and outside the U.S. There are some useful and interesting things that could be written about it, and I’d like to read them – but most invocations of Most Mormons, Utah Mormons, or their cousins that I come across online (and I’m talking almost exclusively about online discourse here) are not engaged in careful analysis but in rhetorical sleights of hand at best.

Take, for example, “Most Mormons don’t understand the New Testament.” It accomplishes a couple pernicious things. First, it suggests a comparison in which Mormons are lacking: Mormons are woefully inadequate compared to _______ – except the blank is never filled in. Also, “Most Mormons don’t understand the NT” treats ‘understanding the NT’ as if it were a single, well-defined object. What does it actually mean, though? It’s probably accurate to say that members of the church have a reasonable grasp on the most important points of the LDS interpretive tradition concerning the NT; “Most Mormons don’t understand the NT” thus manages a third pernicious accomplishment in creating a gap between the LDS interpretive tradition and whatever ‘understanding the NT’ is supposed to mean. One could say that the LDS interpretive tradition does not take particular note of contemporary NT scholarship; this might be true (and perhaps even in some respects deplorable), although it’s not nearly as provocative a comment.

So I’m not making a point about generalization or even overgeneralization here. Just because there are exceptions to a rule, doesn’t make it illegitimate to state what is generally the case. But ‘Most Mormons’ seems to be attached too often to bad generalizations based on a few cases or one person’s experience rather than a reasonable attempt to seek out a representative sample, and to be used in some dubious rhetoric. Thus my mistrust of “Most Mormons.”

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By: Steve Smith https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/most-mormons/#comment-529508 Sun, 18 Jan 2015 09:33:04 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32580#comment-529508 Yes, Mormons are a diverse group and to say ‘most Mormons’ is often an incorrect generalization. I find it interesting that I hear the criticism of ‘most Mormons’ coming from more liberal and conservative camps. I constantly hear ‘Mormon culture’ criticized either because it is too doctrinaire or not doctrinaire enough. At any rate I think that it fairly safe to assume that most Mormons (at least the 15 million figure recently claimed by the LDS church), meaning over 50%, are less active and rarely, if at all, attend an LDS chapel on Sunday.

“It’s better for your own credibility to embrace your religion rather than to flee from it”

That really, really depends on the context.

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