Comments on: Guest Post: The World Is Improving https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/guest-post-the-world-is-improving/ Truth Will Prevail Sun, 05 Aug 2018 23:56:25 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.9.8 By: Gabriel G. https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/guest-post-the-world-is-improving/#comment-530076 Wed, 11 Feb 2015 13:10:42 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32654#comment-530076 It depends on your measuring stick, as has been pointed out in previous comments. You’ve made a good point that these are good times. In some ways, these are truly the best of times.

But anyone can as easily make the opposite case, without even having to point to things like the widespread use and acceptance of pornography, the vanishing institution of marriage, etc. For example, take this analysis from a leftist historian and political analyst in South America:

“We began the 21st century with Al-Aqsa’s Intifada; then we went on to the September 11th attacks against the Twin Towers; the March 11th, 2004 attacks in Madrid; several massacres in North American schools and universities; the burning neighborhoods in Paris in 2005, whose fiery tongues recently reached the Charlie Hebdo cartoonists; the many terrifying ways to commit murder in the fight for and against drug dealers in Mexico; the chilling tribal conflicts in Sudan; the Arab Spring which since 2010 has turned into a permanent Winter; the sadly renewed conflicts in the Gaza Strip; the limitless cruelty seen in the Syrian civil war…”

and she goes on, but you get the point. So, in some ways, these are truly the worst of times.

As usually happens in life, this is a complex issue.

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By: Cameron N. https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/guest-post-the-world-is-improving/#comment-530009 Mon, 09 Feb 2015 04:06:39 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32654#comment-530009 “having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof”

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By: Sean O. https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/guest-post-the-world-is-improving/#comment-529889 Tue, 03 Feb 2015 17:40:35 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32654#comment-529889 It is hard to argue against the idea that the world is becoming a better place if the measurement that you use is technological achievement and improvement of the physical lives of the world’s inhabitants. I wake up grateful every day to live in a world where my children will have more opportunities than any previous generation.

I have been thinking about this paradox for some time- this idea that while this is supposed to be the “end of days” it is also the most prosperous time in the history of the world. I harken back to the Book of Mormon, where the people almost without exception became increasingly less righteous as their material wealth increased. That really makes perfect sense if you think about it. Going back to the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve lived in a utopia. They had everything they needed at their fingertips, wanting for nothing. So what was the missing ingredient for spiritual progression? Opposition. Ironically, when people are given (or earn) everything that they need, it can undermine the entire plan of salvation. We were meant to struggle against the elements and to fight for survival. We were meant to get sick, to see loved ones suffer and die, to experience failure and discouragement. Yet, we live in a world that increasingly eliminates all of those things. If we lose our job, the system itself can keep us alive. Medicine can cure us. Drugs can mitigate the effects of depression. More and more influential people are now saying that robots are going to begin taking our jobs in very large numbers over the next decade or two. So, our need to go to work will even begin to disappear. It is easy to envision a day where automated companies will create most of the world’s economic wealth, and governments will simply distribute the spoils to the people, eliminating the need for work. That type of world, as nice as it sounds superficially, may be terrible for the souls of its people, unless those people replace the struggle to survive with what the church offers. In other words, as the world becomes more and more a place of leisure and decadence, I expect that the church and similar institutions will have to fill the spiritual void. If we no longer need to work 40-50 hour weeks, we will be working more in the temples. Perhaps we will go on missions at younger ages with spouses.

Outside the church, however, the trend is clearly that people are becoming less and less religious. In my mind, this combination of ease, decadence, and failure to maintain a spiritual outlook on life will be the downfall of the world at large.

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By: WalkerW https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/guest-post-the-world-is-improving/#comment-529865 Tue, 03 Feb 2015 06:59:25 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32654#comment-529865 A big amen to this post.

Written about this elsewhere: http://squaretwo.org/Sq2ArticleGivensWrightNoPoor.html

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By: the other Marie https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/guest-post-the-world-is-improving/#comment-529848 Mon, 02 Feb 2015 21:39:15 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32654#comment-529848 That list is exciting, for sure. My brother read Pinker’s book a couple years ago and tried to convince me that my view of the modern world was too dark, too influenced by scripture about End Times. He may well be correct–I hope he is. But I wonder how much of our increased peace is due to increased material prosperity–it seems that poverty tends to breed violence and an us-v-them mentality. If something like global climate change seriously diminishes worldwide prosperity and turns large percentages of the world population into refugees, how long will good will last? In such cases I expect that the only people who manage to act unselfishly are those whose altruism is a product of some kind of powerful spirituality, and not just the I-wish-you-no-harm-as-long-as-I-get-my-cookies attitude that material comfort can easily provide. And how many such people are there out there? People who are good, not just acting good? People who don’t defend their food storage with a gun? We’ll only know if/when the belt tightens.The porn question is in the same category–it could well be that the violence that used to be a product of sexual frustration is being curbed by porn. But if you were to shut down the Internet tomorrow, and millions no longer could get their porn fix, I would bet that the problem of sexual violence would be far worse than it was before and that those who sexual tastes have been shaped by a steady diet of violent sexual imagery and images of trafficked women and children being abused would turn the world black and blue very quickly without their virtual pacifier.

And the percentage of marriages that end in divorce is down, but the percentage of marriages that never happen at all is up. And the number of people who never become parents. Doesn’t sound like a recipe for longterm stability to me.I think that an increase in the percentage of adults who are non-spouses and non-parents probably doesn’t curve the population toward greater empathy. It may leave them more discretionary income, though, which again can keep us peaceful as long as the prosperity lasts. Again, I hope I’m wrong. Please let me be wrong.

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By: Old Man https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/guest-post-the-world-is-improving/#comment-529844 Mon, 02 Feb 2015 19:06:16 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32654#comment-529844 The Prophets have always been opposed to “the world” or “Babylon.” Lehi preached against the sins and prophesied the downfall of Jerusalem, yet his oldest sons downplayed the wickedness of their friends and saw the good side of life in that society. Who was correct?

The problem isn’t that sometimes even the most degraded political and social systems get some things right. It has always been granted that societies can improve. The problem is that these societies are not Zion. They can never offer a resolution to the spiritual problems of the human condition. They cannot overcome the Fall when they celebrate elements of their fallen condition. The clock is ticking for the whole system. Getting things close to a Zion condition on a few issues will not count. Half-way is not good enough.

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By: Jared vdH https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/guest-post-the-world-is-improving/#comment-529842 Mon, 02 Feb 2015 18:23:45 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32654#comment-529842 Interestingly, around New Years all I was hearing in my social media circles was people who describe themselves as “left leaning” describing 2014 as terrible and a general set back for society. The way they described it things were getting worse, not better.

I think it’s a generally recognized trope to say the sky is falling when it really isn’t. This isn’t a phenomenon particular to any religious or political group in my observation.

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By: J Town https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/guest-post-the-world-is-improving/#comment-529838 Mon, 02 Feb 2015 14:54:15 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32654#comment-529838 I agree with those who have stated that the decrease in number of certain negative statistics are not necessarily, in themselves, indicative that the world is getting better. Certainly, I would hope that we would all be happy that violent crimes are reduced (in some places), that people are being treated more fairly (or at least less UNfairly) than before (mostly), and that scientific and medical advances are helping more people live longer, healthier lives. And I agree that we should always have hope.

I also believe that many things are indeed getting worse. I also don’t believe studies themselves are as helpful as we might think them to be. I believe many problems are simply going underground because few people care about them or even believe them to be problematic at all (pornography being a prime example already cited in the comments and I see people already downplaying that even here.) Some things aren’t as easily quantifiable. The lack of civility in interpersonal communication, the lack of collaboration and compromise in the political arena, the increased reliance upon sex and consumerism as key motivators in human interaction, are all things that aren’t as easily reduced to simple statistics. That is not to say that there are not positives to be found as well, and we should never stop agitating for positive change. But all is not well in Zion. Certainly we can help to try to change that, and we should strive to do so.

Great work remains to be done. I think we can be about the Lord’s work while at the same time recognizing spiritual decay that threatens the individual, as well as society. Remember that not all those who have done “great and wonderful works” will be accepted of the Lord at the last day. Why we do the work is every bit as important as the work that we do. Spiritual apathy is the largest obstacle I see to be overcome. And it’s hard to put a number to that. So by all means, let us enjoy the great blessings that the Lord has granted us and be grateful for them. But let’s keep our shoulder to the wheel as well. The enemy remains active and things will get worse before they get better.

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By: larryco_ https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/guest-post-the-world-is-improving/#comment-529836 Mon, 02 Feb 2015 08:31:20 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32654#comment-529836 Well, Julie, now you’ve really done it. If the world is not “ripening” in iniquity, but actually getting better, that means we will never get the millennium. I hope you’re happy!

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By: Beth https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/guest-post-the-world-is-improving/#comment-529835 Mon, 02 Feb 2015 05:33:11 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32654#comment-529835 I’d agree that the world is improving if societies were better at taking care of the most vulnerable. The most vulnerable are unborn children. The number of abortions per year worldwide is over 40 million. Teen abortions may be down compared to recent decades, meaning perhaps that more teens are abstaining from sex, are using prevention, or are delivering their children. But the number of abortions compared to previous centuries is abominable. Twenty percent of US pregnancies end in induced abortion, and the rate is much higher in many parts of the world. This one aspect of current society outweighs all the gains to me.

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By: Eric Nielson https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/guest-post-the-world-is-improving/#comment-529830 Mon, 02 Feb 2015 02:15:28 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32654#comment-529830 Megan,

Why do you think I am taking either side in some argument?

I would suggest that items #2,4,5,7,9,10,11,12,15,16,17,21,26,27,29,and 30 have little to nothing to do with righteousness. Additionally divorce rates could be down because many do to bother with marriage, and teen pregnancy could be down due to birth control rather than abstinence. The list is less impressive with these items removed.

I can make this point without taking either side.

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By: p https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/guest-post-the-world-is-improving/#comment-529823 Sun, 01 Feb 2015 16:31:41 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32654#comment-529823 Noted, JimD, though I would probably (ungenerously?) file this under Exception proves the rule

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By: el oso https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/guest-post-the-world-is-improving/#comment-529822 Sun, 01 Feb 2015 16:27:29 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32654#comment-529822 I would like to thank you for raising the many excellent points in this article, Brandon. As mentioned above, Pres. HInckley and many other leaders in and out of the church were very much optimists and almost certainly paid attention to the many global indicators you cite. (I believe that is part of the job of the leader of a large global organization!)
I would also like to stick up for many older (I presume), and largely conservative folks who are portrayed by some commenters as being hopelessly out of touch.
Many of the comments include global statistics in which the USA had already achieved 90% or more of the improvement at least two generations ago, sometimes centuries. This applies fully or mostly to points 2,3,5,6,7,10,11,12,13,14,16,17,19,21,24,25,26,28,29. 19 out of 30 points are beyond the experience and memory of most LDS in our country.
For USA-only stats, 4,8,20,23 are only a couple of decades trends, so that most adults do remember when things were getting worse, and some remember when they were absolutely worse. For example, how many people had zero divorces in their extended family from their parent’s generation, but have seen many instances in their own (or none in theirs but many in their children’s)? Also, many LDS in Utah and surrounding states have gone from small towns growing up, with all of the advantages in peace and harmony that frequently obtain there, to living in a large city, sometimes without even having moved?

p, I would certainly argue with your point #31 indicating progress. Maybe most LDS in your congregation correctly identified our current president as a corrupt Chicago machine politician. Looking at the past 6 years, this identity better explains many actions of Pres. Obama than any racial classification. So just remember folks, be very wary of any politico who carries a history with the corruption of Chicago machine politics. There may be another candidate on the ballot next year.
Just so some few do not misunderstand, I have been a (legal and living) registered voter in the state of Illinois and in fact voted in state-wide and US elections. As far as I am aware, none of those who got my votes at the time have ever served time in prison, been convicted of corruption, made a complete and utter fool of themselves (politically), or trampled on the US constitution. This puts me in a very small minority of the Illinois electorate. (Voting straight ticket R or D for several elections in a row disqualifies someone on the first two, very objective, criteria I lay out)

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By: Walker F https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/guest-post-the-world-is-improving/#comment-529819 Sun, 01 Feb 2015 06:11:57 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32654#comment-529819 Great post! I completely agree that we are by almost any objective measure better off today than in the past. Steven Pinker’s _Angel’s of Our Better Nature_ compellingly supports your assertions that our world is much less violent and cruel than it ever was previously. Not to mention indoor plumbing, deoderant, access to credit, and on and on..

There are at least two key areas where I feel there is some cause for concern, however; where the trend lines seem to be going in the wrong direction:

First is the disintegration of communities. As our society becomes ever more legalistic, exchange-based, and mobile, we and our families become little atomized units severed from the love and support structures that sustained generations past. While there is a danger in idealizing the past, and while the internet certainly plays a role in bringing people together today in new and positive ways, I still think there is something that many of us lack. Never before has it been so easy to instantly gratify our cravings (pornography may be part of this), and thus we edge nearer to a Huxleyan world where personal satisfaction reigns supreme. Perhaps this is part of the enduring suicide and substance abuse rates.

Secondly, much of the scientific world is convinced that human-driven environmental change is a serious threat to global stability. By most accounts, this could lead to some dire consequences. With most things, the changes wrought over the last centuries have been in the right direction, even if disease, war, and poverty are still hanging around. Given the current levels of skepticism and disregard related to our care for the planet, however, and the collective action problems stymying efforts to address climate change, it seems that the trend is headed in a bad direction. Global climate catastrophe – combined with our modern capacity to more efficiently kill each other than ever before, if we so choose – is one of the few things I could see bringing apocalyptic levels of violence and destruction to our otherwise ever-more-peaceful planet.

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By: Cameron N. https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2015/01/guest-post-the-world-is-improving/#comment-529817 Sun, 01 Feb 2015 05:04:23 +0000 http://timesandseasons.org/?p=32654#comment-529817 “Things are SO MUCH worse.”
“Things are SO MUCH better.”

We hear both of these things from church leaders often, because they are both true. Prosperity begets wickedness.

Moroni 10:6 comes to mind: “nothing that is good denieth the Christ, but acknowledgeth that he is”

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