SEX!!

Let’s face it. The Church wants everyone married because underneath the facade of true love and marital bliss we all want to have sex. My contention is that you need to have your head screwed on straight before you jump into marriage. If getting your mind clear takes having premarital sex, then take the necessary disease/pregnancy precautions and do it. My parents (married 41 years) jumped into marriage after a 3 month courtship, most likely due to the fact that they really wanted to have sex (of course no one ever TELLS you that). It was only after the marriage that my mom found out about my dad’s explosive temper. Though they have been together all this time and dad’s been (mostly) a good guy, I can’t say they are the happiest. And I can’t say I want to end up with a man just like dad.

That’s why I made the executive decision at age 25 to begin having sex with anyone I’m seriously dating. Though I don’t have a temple marriage, I’m also not miserably married either. And I’m not making any children miserable either. When it comes to premarital sex, you should do it if it will clear your mind so you can make a sound judgment about marriage and your future.

That said, I think that it is a good idea for couples to talk about sex prior to marriage, especially about issues like contraception. I really don’t know whether or not such discussions are rare or not among Mormons. My wife-to-be at the time and I had such a conversation:

“What do you think of sex?”
“I am in favor of it.”
Further discussion….

On the other hand, I have heard the the tales of sexual ignrance that circulate as part of Mormon folk lore.

Perhaps because I haven’t had this problem, I tend to think if two people can’t reach a compromise with sexual issues in their marriage, I suspect there’s other problems that need to be examined in that relationship.

I am sitting in my second semester history of philosophy class my freshman year at BYU. My professor is Jim Faulconer. He is talking about alternatives to propositional knowledge.

“Let’s think about sex for a moment,” he says.
“Most of you are, most of the time anyways.”

Then there are the inevitable issues relating to oral sex and the like. Probably both parties ought to have similar expectations *beforehand*.

It was my experience at BYU that there was fairly frank talk among married people in the locker rooms. My girlfriends said that the talk among women in the locker rooms was even more explicit than among the guys. (Fewer tall tales or bragging and more nuts and bolts) So if that is going on at BYU I suspect the problem isn’t quite as bad as some make out. Which isn’t to say I haven’t heard horror stories!

I wonder how much the lack of experience with discussing sex openly hurts Mormon men’s sex lives. I mean, if you’ve only had sex with one woman and aren’t getting feedback from other sources, there are many potential problems a man could be overlooking.

First, I would not characterize it as the “church” insisting on abstinence, but rather the Lord. Prior to the restoration, and since Adam and Eve, the Lord’s instructions on sex outside of marriage have been clear–the sexual relationship is to be confined to marriage. How serious is engaging in sex outside of marriage? Alma taught his son Corianton that it was second only to murder. I would encourage anyone who wonders why this is so important to read Elder Holland’s talk entitled “Souls, Symbols and Sacrament.” He also gave a version of this talk in conference in October 1998.

I find it curious that you would suggest that the Lord’s policy will lead to a negative result for some couples. Well so do all of the Lord’s standards. My wife and I grew up in different households and have somewhat different views on a variety of things–for instance daily scripture study. We are taught to study the scriptures daily. I feel it is important and I enjoy doing it. My wife does not. Thus my wife and I are not fully compatible as to this issue. Should we lament the Lord’s instruction on the matter. No.
It seems to me that although couple may not sufficiently discuss sex prior to marriage so as to be fully “compatible” much of the problems arise from either selfishness or incorrect beliefs about sex. Even accepting Will Baude as someone who has something worthwhile to add to a discussion of sex is part of the problem. Why do we let the world try and dictate and/or direct our understanding or beliefs about sex? I think far too many of us our influenced by the erotic images and portrayals of sex on television, in movies, books etc. Satan has had tremendous influence in this respect and we are left with a distorted view of its purpose and potential for good within the married state.

“And I suppose that as church members we should admit that the Lord’s policy does seem certain to doom at least some couples to lengthy unhappiness and/or divorce.”

I think you are correct, frank and open discussions are necessary to help us all come to a better understanding about the role sex plays in life and marriage and to help avoid issues of incompatibility. However, we should be wary of letting commentary like that of Mr. Baude guide the discussion. There are many other more helpful views out there that truly lead to greater happiness.

Brent A. Barlow, “They Twain Shall Be One: Thoughts on Intimacy in Marriage,” Ensign, Sept. 1986, 49

Steve Gilliland, “The Psychological Case for Chastity,” Ensign, July 1975, 54

“Thoughts on Marriage Compatibility,” Ensign, Sept. 1981, 45

There are many others.

“No combination of power can destroy that marriage except the power within either or both of the spouses themselves; and they must assume the responsibility generally. Other people and agencies may influence for good or bad; financial, social, political, and other situations may seem to have a bearing. But the marriage depends first and always on the two spouses, who can always make their marriage successful and happy if they are determined, unselfish, and righteous.” (Marriage and Divorce, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1976, p. 17.)

Prior to the restoration, and since Adam and Eve, the Lord’s instructions on sex outside of marriage have been clear–the sexual relationship is to be confined to marriage.

I don’t think that’s entirely true. There are a number of verses in the Old Testament which seem to suggest that pre-marital sex is fine, as long as the participants promptly marry after having sex. These include the story of Dinah (Genesis 34); Exodus 22:16; Deut. 22:28-29.

Nevertheless, I think my contention is still valid that there Lord’s has maintained a consistent standard, even if the Lord has recognized that man might deviate from the standard. In fact, the verses in Exodus and Deuteronomy reflect the standard, and proscribe a consequence of violating the standard.

On a more serious note, I do agree with what Nate said in his initial comment “…one reason to refrain from sex before marriage is that it allows the relationship of marriage to be the primary locus of developing sexual preferences.”