Comments on: Hugh Nibley on Learning, Working, and Wealth https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2003/12/hugh-nibley-on-learning-working-and-wealth/ Truth Will Prevail Mon, 06 Aug 2018 17:29:28 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.9.8 By: Nate https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2003/12/hugh-nibley-on-learning-working-and-wealth/#comment-12179 Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=223#comment-12179 My frustration with Nibley’s social commentary has always been that it is more or less theoretically useless. His relentlessly premodern vision makes it very difficult to figure out what any of his thinking might mean in the world that we actually inhabit. I agree with Russell that it is rhetorically powerful and to the extent that it pricks the conscience and arouses the mind to consideration of issues like social justice, etc. I think it is valuable stuff. The problem, is that once you have identified the topic of conversation, Nibley doesn’t have all that much to say…

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By: Renee https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2003/12/hugh-nibley-on-learning-working-and-wealth/#comment-12180 Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=223#comment-12180 In the world and not of it… a difficult task and difficult to define with a definition suitable everyone.

Consecrating all we have and capitalism are at odds. On one hand, we see that capitalism rewards individual efforts and motivates us. On the other, we are to share everything we have. If we ever did have to combine all our material assets at a ward or stake level, how much easier will it be for the Yugo driver versus the Beemer owner?

Our ward was formed into companies once and told in a Sacrament meeting to live the next week off their food storage. If they didn’t have enough or any at all, the other company members were to provide. It was a fiasco. Serious inability to work together. In a real emergency, I wonder what would happen. We made plans after 9/11 of where to meet and what to do as a ward. I wonder how it would really work out if needed.

When I was in high school, I was quite the idealist. Communism seemed like a fine idea. It is a fine idea. Except that it can’t work without a common goal and understanding uniting everyone. Religion provides that goal and understanding but has failed with pride overriding the word of God. The Branch Davidians come to mind here.

So, um, what’s my point? Good question. LOL Maybe that there is room for both capitalism and consecration but stewardship is desperately relevent and should considered in how we operate as capitalists. There’s other reasons, of course, for responsible stewardship but keep in mind that consecration of our material goods really *could* happen. How will we handle that call?

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By: clark goble https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2003/12/hugh-nibley-on-learning-working-and-wealth/#comment-12181 Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=223#comment-12181 I’ve actually wanted to go through Nibley’s work and try and draw out a systematic philosophy. I’m 99% sure he’s a platonist although what variety I’m not sure. However I’m not up on platonic economic views or really that much on ethics. Those are, however, his more interesting views. I admit more to be intrigued by metaphysics, epistemology, and language so I’m probably not the man for the job.

Anyway, I’d say that Nibley does have a real practical philosophy. It could probably be reduced to a kind of intellectual focus. i.e. that ethically we ought to be focused in on *ideas* and not *material*. You can see this in his goods of first and second intent. The idea is ultimately that *any* intellectual endeavor ought to be looking for the ultimate eternal forms of existence. Thus even a lot of “fun” activities I think he’d be against.

When you try and bring this into the traditional economy all sorts of problems result. Consider, for instance, people “less educated.” How do they fit in? Are their activities, which tend to be more materialistically oriented, bad? What about if someone doesn’t want to spent thousands of dollars on books, but wants to spend it on, say, a suit or an expensive car?

This is the classic problem in any united order. What if someone wants to “waste” their resources on slightly more expensive meals (although no better) and spend time with their friends. Others decide to work an hour longer but takes that sacrifice and buys a Porsche with it. Who is right?

This isn’t an insignificant point. I have numerous friends who spend their 20’s going to parties and not exactly working hard. Suddenly they are 30 and are still makign $10 an hour. Then the guys who didn’t date much, lived on ramen, and studied (i.e. didn’t have fun) suddenly are making $75 – $90,000 a year. Now, how are the resources allocated? How do we decide the place of prior sacrifice?

The old parable of the grasshopper and the ants is quite apt.

For Nibley, the entire focus is different. Afterall the focus by both groups is wrong. Who cares about anything but ideas? What both should do is change their desires.

Now I think Nibley is wrong, on the ultimate desires we ought to have. I think things of beauty, fun, and so forth have innate value. I enjoy philosophy, physics and so forth, but I’m not sure I view them as different from my love of hiking, climbing, skiing or the like. I wouldn’t say that my expensive skis are really different from my collection of physics text in value. Nibley would, perhaps justifying the philosophy and physics in terms of both innate ideas and their utility to others. (The Good)

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By: clark goble https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2003/12/hugh-nibley-on-learning-working-and-wealth/#comment-12182 Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=223#comment-12182 My business partner just brought up a good point. Nibley had a rather large collection of very rare (and expensive) books. Wouldn’t it be more consistent with his views to have photocopied them rather than owning thousand dollar books and given the money to the poor?

I’m not criticizing Nibley’s charity. I know that he paid the entire welfare for various people in his ward who truly disliked Nibley – all without them knowing about it.

I just think that ther is some big intellectual inconsistencies in his views.

I should add that he has donated his book collection recently to BYU and it is being cataloged.

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By: Renee https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2003/12/hugh-nibley-on-learning-working-and-wealth/#comment-12183 Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=223#comment-12183 >Wouldn’t it be more consistent with his views to have photocopied them rather than owning thousand dollar books

Only if he wasn’t interested in following the criminal laws of man. ;)

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By: Nate https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2003/12/hugh-nibley-on-learning-working-and-wealth/#comment-12184 Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=223#comment-12184 Generally copyright infringement is not a criminal violation. Rather violation of the copyright exposes you to civil liability. You may have to pay money damages, and a court may tell you to stop doing it, but you aren’t going to prison.

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By: Renee https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2003/12/hugh-nibley-on-learning-working-and-wealth/#comment-12185 Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=223#comment-12185 Generally, copying other people working w/o permission is ethically frowned upon.

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By: clark https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2003/12/hugh-nibley-on-learning-working-and-wealth/#comment-12186 Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=223#comment-12186 Generally rare books are rare because they precede 1929 which is when copyright runs out… (grin)

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By: Matt Evans https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2003/12/hugh-nibley-on-learning-working-and-wealth/#comment-12187 Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=223#comment-12187 ‘Working Towards Zion’ was written by two authors heavily influenced by Nibley who explore the application of United Order principles to the modern economy. The book has several weaknesses, but it fostered my desire to put theory into practice and has lots of great quotes from the prophets about the social aims of the gospel.

On Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-titleid=865677&ve-field=none/qid=/002-1124011-8678404

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By: Greg https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2003/12/hugh-nibley-on-learning-working-and-wealth/#comment-12188 Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=223#comment-12188 I’ll second the recommendation of “Working Towards Zion.” It makes a valiant attempt to understand how Zion principles can be are are implemented in a both developed and developing economies.

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By: Clark Goble https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2003/12/hugh-nibley-on-learning-working-and-wealth/#comment-12189 Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=223#comment-12189 Going off on a tangent – I noticed there was no review on Amazon. If you have good books, I suggest reviewing them. Especially with Mormon books it is sometimes hard to find the good ones. Amazon truly is a great resource – especially for people outside of Utah. It once was that finding good LDS books was difficult. With the advent of the internet that has changed.

One of my goals with my website is to start reviewing my favorite books and then post the reviews to Amazon as well.

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