Comments on: Bushman beats Brodie https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2003/12/bushman-beats-brodie/ Truth Will Prevail Mon, 06 Aug 2018 17:29:28 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.9.8 By: Nate https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2003/12/bushman-beats-brodie/#comment-10987 Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=130#comment-10987 Oh this is fun!

As you notice, I am spending more time on the computer today than I ought. Here is my take.

I don’t think that the Mormon Experience should be on the list. It is a good intro, but I think that is its best claim to fame. For example, unlike Bushman’s treatment of Joseph’s early life it cannot claim to be the best treatment of a critical period. In its place I would put Arrington’s Great Basin Kingdom.

Quinn’s book is a marvelous, bubbling cauldron of facts on a critical issue. His interpretive framework is pretty problematic, but I would keep the book on the list anyway.

McMurrin is overrated in my view. The problem is that he addresses a critical issue — the relationship between Mormonism and philosophical theology — and there is not much else out there. I would probably put down B.H. Robert’s work — Mormon Doctrine of Diety, Seventies’ Course in Theology, or The Truth, The Way, The Life. McMurrin’s work is essentially parasitic on Roberts’. McMurrin has a better grasp of philosophical theology. However, all of his key insights come from the work of Roberts.

I think that you also need to include two works by Nibley. First, An Approach to the Book of Mormon, which is basically the fountainhead of modern scholarlly discussions (critical and apologetic) of the Book of Mormon. Second, The World and the Prophets, which is the fullest (and to date most influential) statement of the Adolph Von Harnack view of the apostacy, namely that it was a process of “Hellenizing” the Gospel. This paradigm, has I think, exerted a tremendous influence on underlying Mormon attitudes toward philosophy and intellectual inquiry.

Brodie’s work is mainly of historical interest, and I probably wouldn’t include it on the short, short list. Her research was derivitive to that of Dale Morgan, and her interpretive methodology was hopelessly flawed. On the otherhand, she is arguably the spark that set off the flame of New Mormon History. (Although I would probably give honors here to Arrington’s Great Basin Kingdom.

Runners up:

Juanita Brooks, Moutain Meadows Massacre
Tom Alexander, Mormonism in Transition (best treatment of the critical issue of Mormon retrenchment with American culture)

Personal Favorites:
Firmage & Mangrum, Zion in the Courts
Sarah Barringer Gordon, The Mormon Question

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By: Greg https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2003/12/bushman-beats-brodie/#comment-10988 Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=130#comment-10988 I actually had Great Basin Kingdom in there, but felt guilty listing it because I never got around to reading the whole thing!

As for Roberts vs. McMurrin, I found McMurrin much more lucid. He also makes a more extensive effort to accurately situate Mormonism within the philosophical and theological traditions. I’ll have to get out my copy of Truth, Way, and Life to see if I agree that all of McMurrin’s good insights come from Roberts.

One book that I enjoyed, that I hear virtually nothing about, is The Angel and the Beehive, a sociological study by Armand Mauss. Why hasn’t this book had more impact? Not scholarly enough?

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By: Adam Greenwood https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2003/12/bushman-beats-brodie/#comment-10989 Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=130#comment-10989 Within the very narrow field of Mormon Legal Studies (so narrow it doesn’t exist), my favorite book is definitely:
Firmage & Mangrum, Zion in the Courts
It does, however, have unfortunate encouraging effects on my incipient Mormon nationalism.

I also think that most everyone reads
England’s essay, Why the Church is as True as the Gospel, and
Bushman’s essay, The Colonization of the Mormon Mind

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By: Adam Greenwood https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2003/12/bushman-beats-brodie/#comment-10990 Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=130#comment-10990 The FARMS crowd are also pretty taken with

The Great Angel, by Margaret Barker

I confess that I haven’t yet read it. Anyone able to say whether its as good as that, or not?

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By: Clark Goble https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2003/12/bushman-beats-brodie/#comment-10991 Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=130#comment-10991 I’d agree that McMurrin is vastly overrated. However, as others have said, it is still the best because little else has been written. Actually I’d suggest that Blake’s The Attributes of God is the place to start. But it deals with a slightly smaller set of theology than McMurrin, although it deals with it far more thoroughly.

I’d also say that Quinn’s Magic is overrated. I think that overall I find Brooke far more interesting, although it too is problematic. The problem once again though is that Quinn touches on things Brooke doesn’t. Further nothing else has really been written on the topic in a comprehensive way. It is once again the advantage of being the greatest among few. I find Quinn’s work extremely important because of the subject matter but simultaneously dangerous because of how easy it is to misread uncautiously. In a way I view the book much like some of Nibley’s work on the Book of Mormon. It is very important to have blazed the trail, but I’d not consider Nibley’s Deseret Books original publications without severe critical considerations.

One of my favorites that has been left out is LaSueur’s The 1838 War in Missouri. (Or a title to that effect) It’s a very different perspective than most know. While some will be troubled by it I personally was relieved to hear the Mormons fought back.

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By: Greg https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2003/12/bushman-beats-brodie/#comment-10992 Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=130#comment-10992 Clark: I’d be interested to hear your top five.

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By: Gordon https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2003/12/bushman-beats-brodie/#comment-10993 Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=130#comment-10993 Hmm. Top five? How about these:
1. Book of Mormon (easy choice for number one)
2. Doctrine & Covenants (a bit dry in spots, but some useful ideas)
3. New Testament (could be number one, but it is not distinctively Mormon)
4. Pearl of Great Price (especially the Joseph Smith History; that is really well done)
5. Old Testament (I am teaching it in Seminary this year, and I really am learning to love Isaiah … really)

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By: Russell Arben Fox https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2003/12/bushman-beats-brodie/#comment-10994 Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=130#comment-10994 My choices:

Richard Bushman, Joseph Smith and the Beginnings of Mormonism
Thomas Alexander, Mormonism in Transition
Terryl Givens, By the Hand of Mormon
Philip Barlow, Mormons and the Bible
Grant Underwood, The Millenarian World of Early Mormonism

Plus a few essays:

Alexander, “The Reconstruction of Mormon Doctrine”
Nibley, “The Passing of the Church” and “Work We Must, But the Lunch is Free”
England, “Why the Church is as True as the Gospel” and “What Covenant Will God Receive in the Desert?”

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By: Gordon https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2003/12/bushman-beats-brodie/#comment-10995 Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=130#comment-10995 Greg, since you started this, I wonder if you would mind institutionalizing it. How about a link in our sidebar to “Mormon Studies Canon” or something like that, with a list of favorites. As you said in your initial post, it could be a great guide to those who are just embarking on this path. Plus, I would like to keep track of these ideas because I now have some new options for my next book.

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By: Clark Goble https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2003/12/bushman-beats-brodie/#comment-10996 Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=130#comment-10996 I always have trouble making my list. I think that I’d have to put Quinn in the list despite thinking it vastly overrated and urging caution towards it. It is unfortunate that no one has really followed up although Joe Swick is supposedly finishing up a book on the connection between Mormonism and Masonry. (Which is far more extensive than most think) However I believe he really doesn’t address Hermeticism and the remnant of Renaissance philosophy much. (I’ve not seen the manuscript – that’s just what I recall from the last time he mentioned it a year or so ago)

I’d probably say LaSueur’s Missouri war, Quinn’s Magic World View, Nibley’s Approaching Zion, Bushman, and then Sorenson. But that’s if I was listing five.

Of course realistically most Mormons haven’t read any of them including Nibley’s.

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By: Adam Greenwood https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2003/12/bushman-beats-brodie/#comment-10997 Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=130#comment-10997 Tell me more about the Angel and the Beehive.

Maybe we could have a contest once we make this feature permanent. The first person to read the whole list gets to be King for a day, or something.

I’ve asked for Ostler for Christmas, but I’m not expecting anything. My wife is deeply skeptical of my water-skeeter philosophizing; she points out that it’s pretty silly of me to try to comprehend the world when I still haven’t done my hometeaching.

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By: Greg https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2003/12/bushman-beats-brodie/#comment-10998 Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=130#comment-10998 RE: The Angel and the Beehive

The author, Armand Mauss, is a sociologist. The subtitle is “The Mormon Struggle with Assimilation” and it is essentially about the tension during last half of the 20th century between the distinctive, prophetic, and revolutionary aspects of Mormonism (the Angel) and its more institutional, conservative aspects (the Beehive). It has interesting chapters on the supposed power struggle between JR Clark and DO McKay, and how that played on in the ensuing decades as “Clark-men” ascended in Church leadership (HB Lee, Jos. Field. Smith, BR McConkie). It also contains interesting surveys of Church members in various settings (San Francisco, Wasatch Front) in an attempt to assess cultural and religious attitutes among the Saints.

Its fun because it is gossipy about the very recent past and tells a great human story of how the church got to where it is as an institution; but the same tone makes me a bit skeptical of its scholarly bona fides.

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By: Russell Arben Fox https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2003/12/bushman-beats-brodie/#comment-10999 Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=130#comment-10999 Regarding The Angel and the Beehive: I wasn’t too impressed. It struck me as an attempt to dress up what was, in essence, a couple of small but interesting observations into a larger academic thesis. I’m in sympathy with a lot of Mauss’s claims, but I was less than impressed with how, methodologically, he chose to put them together and advance them. (But that may simply be because he’d sat on his research for decades, and was desperate to finally get it in book form. I’ve heard very good things about his latest book, All Abraham’s Children.)

Also, it occurs to me that I put nothing about polygamy on my list. If plural marriage is your thing, essential texts include:

Sarah Gordon, The Mormon Question
Carmon Hardy, Solemn Covenant
Sterling Van Wagoner, Mormon Polygamy

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By: Jim https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2003/12/bushman-beats-brodie/#comment-11000 Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=130#comment-11000 Barker’s book, The Great Angel, is excellent–and she has several other very interesting books as well. But nothing she writes is about Mormons or Mormon thought, so I wouldn’t put it on the list of books essential to Mormon Studies.

I agree with Nate and Clark that McMurrin’s book is over-rated. His grasp of philosophical theology is merely conventional, though perhaps that’s what is needed in a basic book.

I’m surprised not to see more people putting Givens’s and Barlow’s books on their lists. But then I don’t have a list myself, so who am I to complain.

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By: Adam Greenwood https://www.timesandseasons.org/index.php/2003/12/bushman-beats-brodie/#comment-11001 Mon, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 /?p=130#comment-11001 For those interested in the Arts,
discussion always starts with
Pte. Kimball, “The Gospel Vision of the Arts,” Ensign, July 1977, 3.

It’s really good stuff. I’ll probably discuss some time at length in a post.

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