Comments on: Polygamy, Natural Law, and Imperialism

By: Super C

Super C — Sun, 07 Mar 2010 16:55:36 +0000

Nate, with you are W&M and Givens over at Richmond, seems a shame there has been no symposium here in the Commonwealth on some LDS realted topic. Or maybe I missed it.

By: S.P. Bailey

S.P. Bailey — Wed, 03 Mar 2010 19:35:27 +0000

Interesting work, Nate. Thanks for sharing it.

By: Raymond Takashi Swenson

Raymond Takashi Swenson — Wed, 03 Mar 2010 01:57:21 +0000

Nate: I have read your article. Bravo! It is not only an additional perspective on the reasoning of the Supreme Court in its devaluation of Mormon religious liberty, but also a poignant reminder that, after the Civil War, the United States entered a period when the belief that “all men are created equal”, which was cited by Lincoln as the principle being tested on the battlefield at Gettysburg, was modified by the triumphant belief that some men are more equal than others.

By: Stephen M (Ethesis)

Stephen M (Ethesis) — Wed, 03 Mar 2010 01:48:45 +0000

“Rather, Reynolds and its heirs must also be seen as a prelude to the international debates over imperialism that followed the Spanish American War.”

That is a great insight. Thanks.

By: WJ

WJ — Tue, 02 Mar 2010 22:41:44 +0000

Nate, you can’t fool me, I know that courts are neutral arbiters of the law and are not influenced by the politics of the day ;)

Interesting thesis, I look forward to reading it.

By: Steve H.

Steve H. — Tue, 02 Mar 2010 21:18:37 +0000

Hey Margaret: I am a Renolds decendant as well, although I did not experience polygamy directly as you did. I always find it odd to see his name come up since we have our own stories about him in our extended family in Utah, where I grew up.

By: Margaret Futerer

Margaret Futerer — Tue, 02 Mar 2010 21:05:43 +0000

Thank you Nate for the insightful discussion on a topic that has touched me every day of my life. As a decendant of Reynolds I was born and raised in a small polygamist community and was unaware of my connection to him until recently. I am looking forward to reading your paper and gaining a deeper understanding of the issue from a political perspective.

By: Nate Oman

Nate Oman — Tue, 02 Mar 2010 18:35:50 +0000

I talk briefly about how antebellum courts dealt with potentially polygamous native American marriages. I also talk extensively about the analogy between Mormons and Indians (as in the Asian inhabitants of the Indian subcontinent). I also have a section were I talk about the way Mormons got conceptualized as a distinct race and how that fed into legal arguments.

By: Raymond Takashi Swenson

Raymond Takashi Swenson — Tue, 02 Mar 2010 18:20:20 +0000

Nate: I will get to your article, but like any lazy student it is easier to ask the professor a question. I know that in much of the literature of the 19th Century attacking the Mormons (discussed in Givens’ Viper on the Hearth), Mormons were grouped with other outcast groups like blacks, Irish Catholics, Asians and American Indians. Mormons were characterized as immigrant foreigners of a different race (those pesky Swedes!). Indeed, it has always seemed to me that the attitude of the Federal government toward the Mormons was basically similar to the attitude toward the Indians and their religion and culture. The US Army that fought Philippine insurgents was the same Army that fought the Indians. Does your article compare the treatment of the Mormon religion to the treatment of Indian religions?

By: Edje Jeter

Edje Jeter — Tue, 02 Mar 2010 17:20:44 +0000

This is great news. Thanks for sharing.

Christine (5): I’m curious how you’re differentiating “condescending paternalism” and “imperialism.”

OP: “Rather, Reynolds and its heirs must also be seen as a prelude to the international debates over imperialism that followed the Spanish American War.”

And not just in US legal conversation: Brits, Boers, and Yanks cited Reynolds and the Mormon experience prior to, during, and after the fighting in South Africa. IIRC, some commentators even managed to get the Philippines, Cuba, South Africa, and the Mormons all in one sentence.