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	<title>Comments on: Mormons and Prosperity</title>
	<atom:link href="http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2010/02/mormons-and-prosperity/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2010/02/mormons-and-prosperity/</link>
	<description>Truth Will Prevail</description>
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		<title>By: Mark B.</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2010/02/mormons-and-prosperity/#comment-308099</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 18:53:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=11379#comment-308099</guid>
		<description>Well, J. Willard didn&#039;t, did he?

Isn&#039;t that proof?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, J. Willard didn&#8217;t, did he?</p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t that proof?</p>
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		<title>By: John A. Coltharp</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2010/02/mormons-and-prosperity/#comment-308086</link>
		<dc:creator>John A. Coltharp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 01:01:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=11379#comment-308086</guid>
		<description>Wow! Good Mormons Don&#039;t Go Broke? What vol., no., date, pg., etc.?
I&#039;d like to read it tonight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow! Good Mormons Don&#8217;t Go Broke? What vol., no., date, pg., etc.?<br />
I&#8217;d like to read it tonight.</p>
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		<title>By: Ardis Parshall</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2010/02/mormons-and-prosperity/#comment-308083</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 00:33:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=11379#comment-308083</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m reading the 1959 &lt;em&gt;Millennial Star&lt;/em&gt; at the moment and have just run across a lengthy article on the wealth and business advice of the Marriotts (just beginning to branch into hotels and still in the Hot Shoppe business). 

The title? &quot;Good Mormons Don&#039;t Go Broke.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m reading the 1959 <em>Millennial Star</em> at the moment and have just run across a lengthy article on the wealth and business advice of the Marriotts (just beginning to branch into hotels and still in the Hot Shoppe business). </p>
<p>The title? &#8220;Good Mormons Don&#8217;t Go Broke.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Velska</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2010/02/mormons-and-prosperity/#comment-308067</link>
		<dc:creator>Velska</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:32:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=11379#comment-308067</guid>
		<description>I am surprised that &lt;a href=&quot;http://scriptures.lds.org/en/jacob/2/19#19&quot; title=&quot;Jacob 2:19&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Jacob 2:19&lt;/a&gt; has been omitted.

Money &#8212; or amount of it &#8212; does not tell about our righteousness or lack of it. &quot;I will take the treasures of the Earth...&quot; is a sentence that many know.

It is true, that for some it is given to have riches, if it so be that they desire to help others. But we will get ways to help, pecuniary or otherwise, if we are sincere about it. 

Too many Mormons, from my view, have bought the Prosperity Gospel hook, line and sinker; they think that because they have plenty of money, they are righteous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am surprised that <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/jacob/2/19#19" title="Jacob 2:19" rel="nofollow">Jacob 2:19</a> has been omitted.</p>
<p>Money &mdash; or amount of it &mdash; does not tell about our righteousness or lack of it. &#8220;I will take the treasures of the Earth&#8230;&#8221; is a sentence that many know.</p>
<p>It is true, that for some it is given to have riches, if it so be that they desire to help others. But we will get ways to help, pecuniary or otherwise, if we are sincere about it. </p>
<p>Too many Mormons, from my view, have bought the Prosperity Gospel hook, line and sinker; they think that because they have plenty of money, they are righteous.</p>
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		<title>By: John A. Coltharp</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2010/02/mormons-and-prosperity/#comment-308057</link>
		<dc:creator>John A. Coltharp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 07:07:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=11379#comment-308057</guid>
		<description>It is true: being righteous can yield worldly riches, because God blesses us when we are righteous. Some members of the Church, however, have perverted this doctrine, thinking that if a person is rich, that must mean they are righteous. Anyone who thinks this way is making totally false assumptions. It&#039;s often rich members who think this way, probably to delude themselves into thinking they are clean before God.

As far as whether or not having riches is good or bad, I fully agree with Brigham Young on the subject:

&quot;The question will not arise with the Lord, nor with the messengers of the Almighty, how much wealth a man has got, but how has he come by this wealth and what will he do with it? . . . The Lord has no objection to his people being wealthy; but he has a great objection to people hoarding up their wealth and not devoting it, expressly, for the advancement of his cause and kingdom on the earth. He has a great objection to this.&quot; (JD 11:294.)

&quot;If, by industrious habits and honorable dealings, you obtain thousands or millions, little or much, it is your duty to use all that is put in your possession, as judiciously as you have knowledge, to build up the kingdom of God on the earth.&quot; (JD 4:29–30.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is true: being righteous can yield worldly riches, because God blesses us when we are righteous. Some members of the Church, however, have perverted this doctrine, thinking that if a person is rich, that must mean they are righteous. Anyone who thinks this way is making totally false assumptions. It&#8217;s often rich members who think this way, probably to delude themselves into thinking they are clean before God.</p>
<p>As far as whether or not having riches is good or bad, I fully agree with Brigham Young on the subject:</p>
<p>&#8220;The question will not arise with the Lord, nor with the messengers of the Almighty, how much wealth a man has got, but how has he come by this wealth and what will he do with it? . . . The Lord has no objection to his people being wealthy; but he has a great objection to people hoarding up their wealth and not devoting it, expressly, for the advancement of his cause and kingdom on the earth. He has a great objection to this.&#8221; (JD 11:294.)</p>
<p>&#8220;If, by industrious habits and honorable dealings, you obtain thousands or millions, little or much, it is your duty to use all that is put in your possession, as judiciously as you have knowledge, to build up the kingdom of God on the earth.&#8221; (JD 4:29–30.)</p>
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		<title>By: document</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2010/02/mormons-and-prosperity/#comment-308038</link>
		<dc:creator>document</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 20:02:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=11379#comment-308038</guid>
		<description>I never have to be worried about being in leadership anyways, I&#039;m a musician!  We never get called to leadership!  I raise my hand to offer help, and a whip is pulled out by the bishop saying, &quot;Get back at the organ, you!&quot;

I have found that people are generally called to what they are naturally talented at.  In my town, most of the bishops and stake presidents we have had were either a doctor, lawyer, or big shot at the local government complex.  However, we do have one librarian, one construction manager, and one high school teacher in leadership positions currently.  None of these are &quot;well off&quot; or prosperous, however, all of them have phenomenal leadership skills.

Just like with music callings (where five or so people in the ward have a &quot;monopoly&quot; on those callings [at least it is in the three stakes I have lived in]), people who have leadership positions generally tend to have great leadership skills.  This (most of the time) means that they will be affluent in life, because (in my humble experience), those who are natural leaders are more likely to receive promotions, pay raises, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I never have to be worried about being in leadership anyways, I&#8217;m a musician!  We never get called to leadership!  I raise my hand to offer help, and a whip is pulled out by the bishop saying, &#8220;Get back at the organ, you!&#8221;</p>
<p>I have found that people are generally called to what they are naturally talented at.  In my town, most of the bishops and stake presidents we have had were either a doctor, lawyer, or big shot at the local government complex.  However, we do have one librarian, one construction manager, and one high school teacher in leadership positions currently.  None of these are &#8220;well off&#8221; or prosperous, however, all of them have phenomenal leadership skills.</p>
<p>Just like with music callings (where five or so people in the ward have a &#8220;monopoly&#8221; on those callings [at least it is in the three stakes I have lived in]), people who have leadership positions generally tend to have great leadership skills.  This (most of the time) means that they will be affluent in life, because (in my humble experience), those who are natural leaders are more likely to receive promotions, pay raises, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: It's Not Me</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2010/02/mormons-and-prosperity/#comment-308018</link>
		<dc:creator>It's Not Me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 15:30:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=11379#comment-308018</guid>
		<description>Just because a person may get some money for writing a book doesn&#039;t mean the book contains nothing of value.  

Likewise, just because I don&#039;t know of the persons who post on this blog doesn&#039;t mean they have nothing of value for my consideration.  

I&#039;ll read what&#039;s there, filter it as I find appropriate, glean what value I can and move on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just because a person may get some money for writing a book doesn&#8217;t mean the book contains nothing of value.  </p>
<p>Likewise, just because I don&#8217;t know of the persons who post on this blog doesn&#8217;t mean they have nothing of value for my consideration.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ll read what&#8217;s there, filter it as I find appropriate, glean what value I can and move on.</p>
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		<title>By: Gerald T</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2010/02/mormons-and-prosperity/#comment-308010</link>
		<dc:creator>Gerald T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 07:54:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=11379#comment-308010</guid>
		<description>George Bernard Shaw is quoted as saying, &quot;the single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place&quot;. I appreciate the discussion as it puts us somewhere past the illusion if we are willing. 

I believe our communication is an effect of our effort, desires, and the care that we give it. Heavenly communication occurs when we desire it to occur in spite of how much has been sent. The prophet speaks and is heard only if there are listening ears. The spirit attempts and is able only if there is an open heart.

I think Mosiah 28:3 is an example of all of those requirements coming into play &quot;...for they could not bear that any human soul should perish; yea, even the very thought that any soul should endure endless torment did cause them to quake and tremble.&quot;

When was the last time that any of us quaked and trembled for our brothers and sisters whom the current prophet has just said we must &quot;rescue&quot;. Somehow the intersect of this with Mark 8:35 &quot;For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever will lose his life for my sake and the Gospel&#039;s, the same shall save it.&quot; determines what we are willing to bear and what is most meaningful to us.

When my probation is over, I do not expect to be queried about my status and wealth in the world, but on whether I was the in the neighborhood of &quot;...the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.&quot; as referenced in Matthew 18:4. If I am about my Father&#039;s work I will not be at risk prosperity wise money or no money. No?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>George Bernard Shaw is quoted as saying, &#8220;the single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place&#8221;. I appreciate the discussion as it puts us somewhere past the illusion if we are willing. </p>
<p>I believe our communication is an effect of our effort, desires, and the care that we give it. Heavenly communication occurs when we desire it to occur in spite of how much has been sent. The prophet speaks and is heard only if there are listening ears. The spirit attempts and is able only if there is an open heart.</p>
<p>I think Mosiah 28:3 is an example of all of those requirements coming into play &#8220;&#8230;for they could not bear that any human soul should perish; yea, even the very thought that any soul should endure endless torment did cause them to quake and tremble.&#8221;</p>
<p>When was the last time that any of us quaked and trembled for our brothers and sisters whom the current prophet has just said we must &#8220;rescue&#8221;. Somehow the intersect of this with Mark 8:35 &#8220;For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever will lose his life for my sake and the Gospel&#8217;s, the same shall save it.&#8221; determines what we are willing to bear and what is most meaningful to us.</p>
<p>When my probation is over, I do not expect to be queried about my status and wealth in the world, but on whether I was the in the neighborhood of &#8220;&#8230;the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.&#8221; as referenced in Matthew 18:4. If I am about my Father&#8217;s work I will not be at risk prosperity wise money or no money. No?</p>
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		<title>By: meg</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2010/02/mormons-and-prosperity/#comment-308008</link>
		<dc:creator>meg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 05:59:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=11379#comment-308008</guid>
		<description>Dave--I&#039;m not referring to CES teachers at all!  I&#039;m referring to members who write one book after another, do the talk radio circuit,
have an LDS travel business, etc.  I&#039;m wary of Glenn Beck as well.
I&#039;ve always had a strong testimony because it&#039;s rooted in the Lord , the scriptures and in the doctrine. I don&#039;t trust in the &quot;arm of flesh&quot;--unless it&#039;s the Prophet or the equivalent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave&#8211;I&#8217;m not referring to CES teachers at all!  I&#8217;m referring to members who write one book after another, do the talk radio circuit,<br />
have an LDS travel business, etc.  I&#8217;m wary of Glenn Beck as well.<br />
I&#8217;ve always had a strong testimony because it&#8217;s rooted in the Lord , the scriptures and in the doctrine. I don&#8217;t trust in the &#8220;arm of flesh&#8221;&#8211;unless it&#8217;s the Prophet or the equivalent.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2010/02/mormons-and-prosperity/#comment-308005</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 04:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=11379#comment-308005</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the comments, everyone.

Meg, I think it is misleading to depict CES instructors as &quot;making their living off the members of the Church.&quot; They get paid from the payroll account of the CES, not by direct selling to members or students. In some sense, you could say that just about everyone &quot;makes their living off of X,&quot; where X is some group of people that benefits from the products or services provided by their employer or business. But that&#039;s really just a description, not a critique.

As for disappointments ... well, life is full of disappointments, some deserved and others entirely undeserved or unfair. Hopefully yours were short and temporary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comments, everyone.</p>
<p>Meg, I think it is misleading to depict CES instructors as &#8220;making their living off the members of the Church.&#8221; They get paid from the payroll account of the CES, not by direct selling to members or students. In some sense, you could say that just about everyone &#8220;makes their living off of X,&#8221; where X is some group of people that benefits from the products or services provided by their employer or business. But that&#8217;s really just a description, not a critique.</p>
<p>As for disappointments &#8230; well, life is full of disappointments, some deserved and others entirely undeserved or unfair. Hopefully yours were short and temporary.</p>
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