Comments on: ICE agents impersonating missionaries to make arrests

By: dsilversmith

dsilversmith — Fri, 01 Jan 2010 19:59:13 +0000

If ICE agents are dreesing up as Mormons, can I as a Mormon Dress up and act as an ICE agent?

“MORMON ICE” The new rap group.

By: Forest Simmons

Forest Simmons — Thu, 31 Dec 2009 20:58:14 +0000

For those of you that think that our undocumented Latino brothers and sisters should all be deported, answer me this: Why should the USA be more exclusive than the Kingdom of God on Earth?

By: Kaimi Wenger

Kaimi Wenger — Wed, 30 Dec 2009 04:11:42 +0000

Another update: KSL has a story on this, and reports that the ACLU is investigating the claim.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=9174810

By: Jettboy

Jettboy — Tue, 29 Dec 2009 16:08:47 +0000

Sorry guys, I was wrong. Oh wait, no I wasn’t. Unless you agree with the professor that ICE and the LDS Church that isn’t too concerned with the allegations is lying.

By: Matt Evans

Matt Evans — Tue, 29 Dec 2009 04:21:50 +0000

The cultural symbolism of dress shirts and ties doesn't belong to Mormons, but we could make a strong argument that the combination of a pair of 19-year-olds wearing dress shirts, silk ties and bicycle helmets does.

By: Kaimi

Kaimi — Tue, 29 Dec 2009 04:19:17 +0000

A Salt Lake Trib article today followed up on the story. (See http://www.sltrib.com/faith/ci_14082628 ). It’s a nice write-up. The short version: There’s one witness to allegations; ICE denies it; the original interview subject expressed disbelief in ICE’s denial.

By: Jim Donaldson

Jim Donaldson — Tue, 29 Dec 2009 00:51:46 +0000

I can verify what RTS said about dress in urban areas. I’ve lived in one for 35 years. Simply no one will answer a door if you are two unknown guys wearing jackets and a ties; otherwise, maybe. But you are wasting your time doing visits to people who aren’t expecting you all dressed for church. I suspect the law enforcement or legal industry connection is the reason, but whatever it is, it is true.

By: Raymond Takashi Swenson

Raymond Takashi Swenson — Mon, 28 Dec 2009 21:30:33 +0000

By the way, we should not forget that law enforcement officers often ARE Mormons. I have worked with a number of them over the years. I would hope, however, that they would understand the reasons why they should not add to the normal confusion and actually claim to be missionaries when they are working in their law enforcement capacity. The officers I have worked with had never, in my knowledge, done such a thing, maintaining a distinction between their Church membership and their police work–even when the people they were arresting were members of the elders quorum or ward they themselves led as quorum president or bishop.

By: Raymond Takashi Swenson

Raymond Takashi Swenson — Mon, 28 Dec 2009 21:25:39 +0000

As far as fear of Mormon missionaries because people think they are law enforcment agents: That is sort of unavoidable in an era when very few people wear coats and ties and white shirts and have short haircuts and no facial hair, except people who are representing behaviorally conservative institutions like the police, law firms and process servers, and churches. I encountered that when I went on “splits” with the missionaries looking up referrals in the black Maryland subuurbs of Washington, DC. I think almost any missionary who serves in an urban area has had someone answer the door very belatedly, after flushing drugs down a toilet.

Clearly, wearing name tags that announce quite clearly that our missionaries are from the Church is about the only thing they can do to ameliorate the fear. On the other hand, I would expect that the uncertainty about their identity has protected more than one missionary from being accosted by some thugs, even as it may have made them a target for others.

I do know that rumors spread by communists in Hong Kong, claiming that Mormons were CIA agents, were responsible for the missionaries having to be withdrawn for many months in the late 1960s. Such rumors are certainly behind other visa difficulties for the Church in other countries.

If a law enforcement agent used a ruse to gain entry in an emergency in order to save a life, I wouldn’t mind. On the other hand, if some officers are claiming to be Mormon missionaries on a repeated basis, they need to be reined in; it becomes a real-life version of the outrageous anti-Mormon anti-Proposition 8 commercial that was shown in California. If any are actually using fake LDS name tags, the Church should sue the agency for defamation and placing the Church in a false light, as well as any other intellectual property claim possible, just as Microsoft would do if they were using fake company ID. If this is really happening, the Church needs to denounce it loud and clear and press Congress and the Administration to stop it.

By: Chris Henrichsen

Chris Henrichsen — Mon, 28 Dec 2009 21:20:25 +0000

Forgot to finish the sentence. It should read:

“I think the issue is one of cultural symbolism. I do not think anyone was thinking that this violated some sort of trademark. However, this might do damage to the work and put missionaries at risk.”