<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: True Adventures in Turning the Other Cheek, Pt. One</title>
	<atom:link href="http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/11/true-adventures-in-turning-the-other-cheek/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/11/true-adventures-in-turning-the-other-cheek/</link>
	<description>Truth Will Prevail</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 25 May 2012 16:36:33 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Crick</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/11/true-adventures-in-turning-the-other-cheek/#comment-301912</link>
		<dc:creator>Crick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 17:46:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=10061#comment-301912</guid>
		<description>#34 Raymond:  I don’t think seeking every redress of grievance available for oneself is always mandated, even when one feels injustice has occurred (think Thomas B. Marsh).  Conceptually I think you are correct, but in Patricia’s case, here was a murky “injustice” in the making—one that had not been finalized yet.  And so in her journey, she sought counsel which ended up being inspired.  Had she “appealed” under the circumstances, doing so might have hardened the misconceptions about her even if she had “won”.  She would be demanding justice and possibly eliminating a chance to prove herself by accepting callings.  Often the best way to get someone to know they are wrong is to step back and allow them to figure it out for themselves.  To militantly show them up front often has the opposite of the intended effect.

As a teen (imperfect analogy I know) I often submitted to my parents even when I believed they were wrong and I found value in that.  Patricia was not an individual who was congenitally shy or who needed to learn to stick up for herself—instead, like Karen (#17 and 37) this was partly a way of learning when to use one’s gifts and options and when not to.  I also find value in showing loyalty to the Church through accepting callings, submitting to constituted authority and being willing to prove (and re-prove) one’s loyalty.  (Yes, Patricia, I think that element of loyalty = longsuffering and therefore = charity).  

Someone said she would like to hear Sister S’s side of the story.  I would also like to hear the Bishop’s side of the story, although Patricia has done a good job of alluding to what the ward was going through.  Imagine the frazzled Sunday school and RS teachers who had probably agonized over every sentence, wondering if the Sister S bomb was going to go off.  Imagine being a bishop and wanting to keep the peace without exercising “unrighteous dominion”.  Having witnessed Sister S, the ward may have been trying to head Patricia off at the pass.  Were they in error?  Clearly!  Should they be forgiven?  Of course.  One of the most honest and poignant parts of this story is the admission of Patricia’s own [understandable] misconceptions.  When she thought she had been purposely passed up on the sacrament, she was making assumptions similar to those of the bishop toward her.  By wisely motioning to the brother who passed her, she was able to get an accurate read on the situation.  The bishop took longer in getting his accurate read but Patricia’s patience paid off.  Much of this story is about human perception, how it is created and how—with difficulty—erroneous perceptions can be corrected.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#34 Raymond:  I don’t think seeking every redress of grievance available for oneself is always mandated, even when one feels injustice has occurred (think Thomas B. Marsh).  Conceptually I think you are correct, but in Patricia’s case, here was a murky “injustice” in the making—one that had not been finalized yet.  And so in her journey, she sought counsel which ended up being inspired.  Had she “appealed” under the circumstances, doing so might have hardened the misconceptions about her even if she had “won”.  She would be demanding justice and possibly eliminating a chance to prove herself by accepting callings.  Often the best way to get someone to know they are wrong is to step back and allow them to figure it out for themselves.  To militantly show them up front often has the opposite of the intended effect.</p>
<p>As a teen (imperfect analogy I know) I often submitted to my parents even when I believed they were wrong and I found value in that.  Patricia was not an individual who was congenitally shy or who needed to learn to stick up for herself—instead, like Karen (#17 and 37) this was partly a way of learning when to use one’s gifts and options and when not to.  I also find value in showing loyalty to the Church through accepting callings, submitting to constituted authority and being willing to prove (and re-prove) one’s loyalty.  (Yes, Patricia, I think that element of loyalty = longsuffering and therefore = charity).  </p>
<p>Someone said she would like to hear Sister S’s side of the story.  I would also like to hear the Bishop’s side of the story, although Patricia has done a good job of alluding to what the ward was going through.  Imagine the frazzled Sunday school and RS teachers who had probably agonized over every sentence, wondering if the Sister S bomb was going to go off.  Imagine being a bishop and wanting to keep the peace without exercising “unrighteous dominion”.  Having witnessed Sister S, the ward may have been trying to head Patricia off at the pass.  Were they in error?  Clearly!  Should they be forgiven?  Of course.  One of the most honest and poignant parts of this story is the admission of Patricia’s own [understandable] misconceptions.  When she thought she had been purposely passed up on the sacrament, she was making assumptions similar to those of the bishop toward her.  By wisely motioning to the brother who passed her, she was able to get an accurate read on the situation.  The bishop took longer in getting his accurate read but Patricia’s patience paid off.  Much of this story is about human perception, how it is created and how—with difficulty—erroneous perceptions can be corrected.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Patricia Karamesines</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/11/true-adventures-in-turning-the-other-cheek/#comment-301898</link>
		<dc:creator>Patricia Karamesines</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 04:27:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=10061#comment-301898</guid>
		<description>Hi Jim!  I&#039;m always very happy to hear from you!

As for weathering storms, we do the best we can with what we&#039;ve got, right?  At another time, I might have done worse, or better.  Or if I hadn&#039;t called on my friends for help ...

No mistake, you&#039;ve inspired me, too.  So, so much that you&#039;ve been through in the last year.  These whippersnappers that have never faced the deep challenges don&#039;t know what it takes, eh? ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jim!  I&#8217;m always very happy to hear from you!</p>
<p>As for weathering storms, we do the best we can with what we&#8217;ve got, right?  At another time, I might have done worse, or better.  Or if I hadn&#8217;t called on my friends for help &#8230;</p>
<p>No mistake, you&#8217;ve inspired me, too.  So, so much that you&#8217;ve been through in the last year.  These whippersnappers that have never faced the deep challenges don&#8217;t know what it takes, eh? ;)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jim Cobabe</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/11/true-adventures-in-turning-the-other-cheek/#comment-301893</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Cobabe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 01:44:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=10061#comment-301893</guid>
		<description>Patricia,

Weather the storms.

How easy for us to see the bishop was wrong.  No matter.  Your circumspection saved compounding the err.  As you have helped me to see, it always could be worse.

I applaud your faith and bravery.  A most excellent saga.  You set a very high standard for us all.

I wish I could honestly say the stormy weather was all done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patricia,</p>
<p>Weather the storms.</p>
<p>How easy for us to see the bishop was wrong.  No matter.  Your circumspection saved compounding the err.  As you have helped me to see, it always could be worse.</p>
<p>I applaud your faith and bravery.  A most excellent saga.  You set a very high standard for us all.</p>
<p>I wish I could honestly say the stormy weather was all done.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Patricia Karamesines</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/11/true-adventures-in-turning-the-other-cheek/#comment-301866</link>
		<dc:creator>Patricia Karamesines</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 18:01:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=10061#comment-301866</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Longsuffering: when the ward seemed stacked against you, you were long suffering. I hope if I were in your position, or that of the Bishop, I would take a step back and try to be less judgmental; or at least wait things out even if it all seemed to be meaningless torture.&lt;/i&gt;

Crick, I&#039;m happy you like the story.  I feel honored to be invited into your home via FHE.

FYI, I&#039;m really not much of a sufferer, let alone a longsufferer.  I get frustrated, irritated, sometimes I square off with folks (when it seems the right thing--and sometimes it isn&#039;t), but generally I&#039;m simply very interested in what&#039;s going on.  Suffering takes a lot of time and energy.  I try directing both into figuring out what&#039;s going on rather than merely suffering through.

More to the point, I like making mistakes. Well, I don&#039;t like &lt;i&gt;making&lt;/i&gt; them exactly, but I like learning from the mistakes I make.  And I like people.  A lot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Longsuffering: when the ward seemed stacked against you, you were long suffering. I hope if I were in your position, or that of the Bishop, I would take a step back and try to be less judgmental; or at least wait things out even if it all seemed to be meaningless torture.</i></p>
<p>Crick, I&#8217;m happy you like the story.  I feel honored to be invited into your home via FHE.</p>
<p>FYI, I&#8217;m really not much of a sufferer, let alone a longsufferer.  I get frustrated, irritated, sometimes I square off with folks (when it seems the right thing&#8211;and sometimes it isn&#8217;t), but generally I&#8217;m simply very interested in what&#8217;s going on.  Suffering takes a lot of time and energy.  I try directing both into figuring out what&#8217;s going on rather than merely suffering through.</p>
<p>More to the point, I like making mistakes. Well, I don&#8217;t like <i>making</i> them exactly, but I like learning from the mistakes I make.  And I like people.  A lot.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Crick</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/11/true-adventures-in-turning-the-other-cheek/#comment-301865</link>
		<dc:creator>Crick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:43:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=10061#comment-301865</guid>
		<description>That comment was actually meant for part II...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That comment was actually meant for part II&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Crick</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/11/true-adventures-in-turning-the-other-cheek/#comment-301861</link>
		<dc:creator>Crick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:09:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=10061#comment-301861</guid>
		<description>This is perhaps the best thing I have read on a blog.  I was going to suggest you submit it for publication, but then realized my affinity for old media would be lost on many, and that you already published it here (tho’ I would edit out the 1st paragraph…no disclaimers were needed).

This is conference talk material and just became our families next FHE.  Things we will ponder:

Gratitude for the sound counsel of good friends. (Good but seemingly contradictory advice from multiple mentors was not mutually exclusive after all).

There is wisdom in counsel:  You kept trying to follow the advice given and remembered it in ensuing months.

Longsuffering:  when the ward seemed stacked against you, you were long suffering.  I hope if I were in your position, or that of the Bishop, I would take a step back and try to be less judgmental; or at least wait things out even if it all seemed to be meaningless torture. 

Humility:  How many times in our lives has a profound lesson been cut off at the beginning because we decided to “drop the class”.  Fortunately you stuck around and have had enough humility to continue to learn from it.

Thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is perhaps the best thing I have read on a blog.  I was going to suggest you submit it for publication, but then realized my affinity for old media would be lost on many, and that you already published it here (tho’ I would edit out the 1st paragraph…no disclaimers were needed).</p>
<p>This is conference talk material and just became our families next FHE.  Things we will ponder:</p>
<p>Gratitude for the sound counsel of good friends. (Good but seemingly contradictory advice from multiple mentors was not mutually exclusive after all).</p>
<p>There is wisdom in counsel:  You kept trying to follow the advice given and remembered it in ensuing months.</p>
<p>Longsuffering:  when the ward seemed stacked against you, you were long suffering.  I hope if I were in your position, or that of the Bishop, I would take a step back and try to be less judgmental; or at least wait things out even if it all seemed to be meaningless torture. </p>
<p>Humility:  How many times in our lives has a profound lesson been cut off at the beginning because we decided to “drop the class”.  Fortunately you stuck around and have had enough humility to continue to learn from it.</p>
<p>Thank you.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Stephen M (Ethesis)</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/11/true-adventures-in-turning-the-other-cheek/#comment-301849</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen M (Ethesis)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 13:54:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=10061#comment-301849</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I don’t have access to the details of anybody else’s mistakes or near-mistakes as fully as I do to my own, so those stories where I made matters worse (or nearly did) and those which, surprisingly, erupted into fireworks at the end are the ones I have the greatest right to tell.&lt;/i&gt;

Nicely said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I don’t have access to the details of anybody else’s mistakes or near-mistakes as fully as I do to my own, so those stories where I made matters worse (or nearly did) and those which, surprisingly, erupted into fireworks at the end are the ones I have the greatest right to tell.</i></p>
<p>Nicely said.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tatiana</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/11/true-adventures-in-turning-the-other-cheek/#comment-301848</link>
		<dc:creator>Tatiana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 11:46:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=10061#comment-301848</guid>
		<description>This is very disturbing.  I like the lesson of the brother who almost overlooked you when passing the sacrament.  Stop him, ask him, make sure there isn&#039;t some mistake.  I&#039;m glad you didn&#039;t just stand there in silence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is very disturbing.  I like the lesson of the brother who almost overlooked you when passing the sacrament.  Stop him, ask him, make sure there isn&#8217;t some mistake.  I&#8217;m glad you didn&#8217;t just stand there in silence.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/11/true-adventures-in-turning-the-other-cheek/#comment-301838</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:43:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=10061#comment-301838</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t wait to hear the end of the story!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t wait to hear the end of the story!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rob Perkins</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/11/true-adventures-in-turning-the-other-cheek/#comment-301837</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Perkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 23:34:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=10061#comment-301837</guid>
		<description>Augh! A cliffhanger!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Augh! A cliffhanger!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
<!-- WP Super Cache is installed but broken. The path to wp-cache-phase1.php in wp-content/advanced-cache.php must be fixed! -->
