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	<title>Comments on: Spiritual Pickpockets</title>
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	<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/08/spiritual-pickpockets/</link>
	<description>Truth Will Prevail</description>
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		<title>By: Ardis Parshall</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/08/spiritual-pickpockets/#comment-297559</link>
		<dc:creator>Ardis Parshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 01:46:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=9306#comment-297559</guid>
		<description>Why is it unfair, Kevin Clayson? As someone who writes for a living and has been plagiarized as well as reprinted with attribution but without permission, it&#039;s a serious concern to me.

Also, internet publication IS publication. Why would you think it is not?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why is it unfair, Kevin Clayson? As someone who writes for a living and has been plagiarized as well as reprinted with attribution but without permission, it&#8217;s a serious concern to me.</p>
<p>Also, internet publication IS publication. Why would you think it is not?</p>
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		<title>By: Julie M. Smith</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/08/spiritual-pickpockets/#comment-297555</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie M. Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 00:11:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=9306#comment-297555</guid>
		<description>Kevin Clayson, am I misreading you or is your position that it is OK to steal intellectual property from the Church?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin Clayson, am I misreading you or is your position that it is OK to steal intellectual property from the Church?</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Clayson</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/08/spiritual-pickpockets/#comment-297551</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Clayson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 22:57:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=9306#comment-297551</guid>
		<description>H. Bob, it is really unfair to take issue with Stephen because what he has or hasn&#039;t got approved. C&#039;mon my friend, it is the concepts we are discussing not the logistics of how when and where someone quotes. The book is not even published for goodness sakes. No Ad Hominem attacks allowed!!! (which is really kind of what so many in this discussion have done to poor Stephen, who has such a desire to do noting more than bless lives by the YEARS of research he has done on this subject.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>H. Bob, it is really unfair to take issue with Stephen because what he has or hasn&#8217;t got approved. C&#8217;mon my friend, it is the concepts we are discussing not the logistics of how when and where someone quotes. The book is not even published for goodness sakes. No Ad Hominem attacks allowed!!! (which is really kind of what so many in this discussion have done to poor Stephen, who has such a desire to do noting more than bless lives by the YEARS of research he has done on this subject.)</p>
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		<title>By: H. Bob</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/08/spiritual-pickpockets/#comment-297549</link>
		<dc:creator>H. Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 22:01:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=9306#comment-297549</guid>
		<description>Sean, 

I get where you&#039;re coming from--my quibble isn&#039;t so much with the sentence itself, because it does say what we&#039;d expect it to say. Rather, it&#039;s the way it says it, as if that last step were optional. I suppose it is optional, but as written, that last sentence comes across as hedging on what&#039;s probably the most important step (and, arguably, the step that should come first--consecration). It&#039;s like saying that we believe in faith, repentance, baptism, and, ideally, the gift of the Holy Ghost. See? Seems optional in that list, doesn&#039;t it? 

And after having followed the link, I&#039;ve got some intellectual property issues with the authors as well (unless they&#039;ve actually written to IRI and gotten permission for the multitude of GA quotes--including a PDF download of a current Church pamphlet--that they&#039;re quoting). I have a little experience in this arena, and IRI usually isn&#039;t too happy with people who quote, voluminously, recent General Authority statements without asking permission first. If I&#039;m mistaken, and they have permission, then I apologize. But it certainly looks to me like coattail-riding, which is at least one of the reasons IRI exists--to make sure that the Church&#039;s intellectual property doesn&#039;t get hijacked by anyone, friend or foe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sean, </p>
<p>I get where you&#8217;re coming from&#8211;my quibble isn&#8217;t so much with the sentence itself, because it does say what we&#8217;d expect it to say. Rather, it&#8217;s the way it says it, as if that last step were optional. I suppose it is optional, but as written, that last sentence comes across as hedging on what&#8217;s probably the most important step (and, arguably, the step that should come first&#8211;consecration). It&#8217;s like saying that we believe in faith, repentance, baptism, and, ideally, the gift of the Holy Ghost. See? Seems optional in that list, doesn&#8217;t it? </p>
<p>And after having followed the link, I&#8217;ve got some intellectual property issues with the authors as well (unless they&#8217;ve actually written to IRI and gotten permission for the multitude of GA quotes&#8211;including a PDF download of a current Church pamphlet&#8211;that they&#8217;re quoting). I have a little experience in this arena, and IRI usually isn&#8217;t too happy with people who quote, voluminously, recent General Authority statements without asking permission first. If I&#8217;m mistaken, and they have permission, then I apologize. But it certainly looks to me like coattail-riding, which is at least one of the reasons IRI exists&#8211;to make sure that the Church&#8217;s intellectual property doesn&#8217;t get hijacked by anyone, friend or foe.</p>
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		<title>By: In NJ</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/08/spiritual-pickpockets/#comment-297547</link>
		<dc:creator>In NJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 21:11:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=9306#comment-297547</guid>
		<description>Mark B: My point exactly! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark B: My point exactly! :)</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/08/spiritual-pickpockets/#comment-297546</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 20:56:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=9306#comment-297546</guid>
		<description>H. Bob, &quot;invest(ing) them (blessings) back into the kingdom and serving others more&quot; sounds quite a bit like the Law of Consecration.

I take the word &quot;ideally&quot; to mean that if we continue the same pattern, the Lord will continue to prosper us in whatever ways He has planned. If we don&#039;t, then we&#039;ll be moving in the direction of being on our own, without His help. The B of M and history show us that most people don&#039;t continue that pattern, but &quot;ideally&quot; we would.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>H. Bob, &#8220;invest(ing) them (blessings) back into the kingdom and serving others more&#8221; sounds quite a bit like the Law of Consecration.</p>
<p>I take the word &#8220;ideally&#8221; to mean that if we continue the same pattern, the Lord will continue to prosper us in whatever ways He has planned. If we don&#8217;t, then we&#8217;ll be moving in the direction of being on our own, without His help. The B of M and history show us that most people don&#8217;t continue that pattern, but &#8220;ideally&#8221; we would.</p>
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		<title>By: H. Bob</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/08/spiritual-pickpockets/#comment-297537</link>
		<dc:creator>H. Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:42:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=9306#comment-297537</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a little loath to jump into this discussion, but I think I&#039;ve located what bothers me most about Mr. Palmer&#039;s approach. I&#039;ll quote a paragraph of his and then talk about what it is that makes this approach seem &quot;off&quot; to me: 

&quot;And from our studies emerged a clear model, which is this: 1) start with the ideals (building the kingdom, achieving eternal happiness, serving our fellowman, everything Jacob talks about in Jacob chapter 2, these are the proper reasons for wanting to thrive financially), 2) prepare and protect (basics such as food storage, insurance, savings, tax and estate planning), 3) manage our finances on an ongoing basis (tithing, cash flow management, budgeting, etc.), 4) choose the right career (believe it or not, the prophets have given much specific advice on this), 5) increase our productivity, and 6) after all of these come the blessings. Then, ideally, once we receive these blessings, we reinvest them back into building the kingdom and serving others more.&quot;

It&#039;s that last sentence, I think, that troubles me--&quot;ideally&quot;? Not if you&#039;re taking that whole Law of Consecration covenant seriously. That paragraph rubs me the wrong way because it seems to say that there&#039;s a system God set up that if you play by His rules, you&#039;ll get wealth, and then, well, you know, it&#039;s up to you to do with as you please. &quot;Ideally,&quot; you&#039;d give some back, but you know, if you decide at that point that a bigger house might be nice, well, God&#039;s not going to care. 

I think God does care, at every point, what you&#039;re doing with the temporal blessings you&#039;ve received. If you do decide, once you&#039;re wealthy, to go for the trappings of wealth instead of building up the Kingdom (as many do, and as the Book of Mormon repeatedly warns against and explains why &quot;natural men&quot; fall into this trap time and time again), God&#039;s going to get out the broom. 

This paragraph, and its last sentence, trouble me because the stakes are far too high to be that casual about what you *should* do if and when God prospers you. Consecration means finding ways to build the kingdom regardless of your net worth. If you are wise with your stewardship, you&#039;ll be given more to steward (and that goes beyond mere money).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a little loath to jump into this discussion, but I think I&#8217;ve located what bothers me most about Mr. Palmer&#8217;s approach. I&#8217;ll quote a paragraph of his and then talk about what it is that makes this approach seem &#8220;off&#8221; to me: </p>
<p>&#8220;And from our studies emerged a clear model, which is this: 1) start with the ideals (building the kingdom, achieving eternal happiness, serving our fellowman, everything Jacob talks about in Jacob chapter 2, these are the proper reasons for wanting to thrive financially), 2) prepare and protect (basics such as food storage, insurance, savings, tax and estate planning), 3) manage our finances on an ongoing basis (tithing, cash flow management, budgeting, etc.), 4) choose the right career (believe it or not, the prophets have given much specific advice on this), 5) increase our productivity, and 6) after all of these come the blessings. Then, ideally, once we receive these blessings, we reinvest them back into building the kingdom and serving others more.&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s that last sentence, I think, that troubles me&#8211;&#8221;ideally&#8221;? Not if you&#8217;re taking that whole Law of Consecration covenant seriously. That paragraph rubs me the wrong way because it seems to say that there&#8217;s a system God set up that if you play by His rules, you&#8217;ll get wealth, and then, well, you know, it&#8217;s up to you to do with as you please. &#8220;Ideally,&#8221; you&#8217;d give some back, but you know, if you decide at that point that a bigger house might be nice, well, God&#8217;s not going to care. </p>
<p>I think God does care, at every point, what you&#8217;re doing with the temporal blessings you&#8217;ve received. If you do decide, once you&#8217;re wealthy, to go for the trappings of wealth instead of building up the Kingdom (as many do, and as the Book of Mormon repeatedly warns against and explains why &#8220;natural men&#8221; fall into this trap time and time again), God&#8217;s going to get out the broom. </p>
<p>This paragraph, and its last sentence, trouble me because the stakes are far too high to be that casual about what you *should* do if and when God prospers you. Consecration means finding ways to build the kingdom regardless of your net worth. If you are wise with your stewardship, you&#8217;ll be given more to steward (and that goes beyond mere money).</p>
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		<title>By: Bob_C</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/08/spiritual-pickpockets/#comment-297534</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob_C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 17:58:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=9306#comment-297534</guid>
		<description>&quot;Known also as Word of Faith, Health and Wealth, or Name it and Claim it; Prosperity Theology is moving from Pentecostal congregations and mega-churches into more mainstream denominations.&quot;

I think you might have it backwards.  Normon Vincent Peale and all that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Known also as Word of Faith, Health and Wealth, or Name it and Claim it; Prosperity Theology is moving from Pentecostal congregations and mega-churches into more mainstream denominations.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think you might have it backwards.  Normon Vincent Peale and all that.</p>
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		<title>By: Researcher</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/08/spiritual-pickpockets/#comment-297527</link>
		<dc:creator>Researcher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 16:29:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=9306#comment-297527</guid>
		<description>...And I&#039;m sure if there&#039;s loot to be had, Philadelphia would like to be in on it as well...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;And I&#8217;m sure if there&#8217;s loot to be had, Philadelphia would like to be in on it as well&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Mark B.</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/08/spiritual-pickpockets/#comment-297525</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 16:07:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=9306#comment-297525</guid>
		<description>Living across the Hudson, in the corruption free paradise of New York City, I agree with In NJ.  We should let New Jersey in on the racket!  :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Living across the Hudson, in the corruption free paradise of New York City, I agree with In NJ.  We should let New Jersey in on the racket!  :-)</p>
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