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	<title>Comments on: Speculation</title>
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	<description>Truth Will Prevail</description>
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		<title>By: Ed Britton</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/07/speculation/#comment-296084</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Britton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 13:36:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=8900#comment-296084</guid>
		<description>This is boring. Let&#039;s talk about something else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is boring. Let&#8217;s talk about something else.</p>
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		<title>By: JAT</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/07/speculation/#comment-295699</link>
		<dc:creator>JAT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 20:38:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks Kaimi Wenger! I&#039;ll read about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Kaimi Wenger! I&#8217;ll read about it.</p>
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		<title>By: Kaimi Wenger</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/07/speculation/#comment-295695</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaimi Wenger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 19:20:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>It was part of the early washing and annointing ceremony.  (A &quot;purification&quot; stage). 
 
For sources, check Rough Stone Rolling, the Kirtland Temple chapter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was part of the early washing and annointing ceremony.  (A &#8220;purification&#8221; stage). </p>
<p>For sources, check Rough Stone Rolling, the Kirtland Temple chapter.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: JAT</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/07/speculation/#comment-295691</link>
		<dc:creator>JAT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 18:16:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=8900#comment-295691</guid>
		<description>Can someone explain AND CITE the cinnamon and whiskey thing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can someone explain AND CITE the cinnamon and whiskey thing?</p>
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		<title>By: Raymond Takashi Swenson</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/07/speculation/#comment-295616</link>
		<dc:creator>Raymond Takashi Swenson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 17:07:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=8900#comment-295616</guid>
		<description>We know that Christ received baptism as an example to all of us, &quot;to fulfill all righteousness.&quot; It is possible that he would undergo other ordinances for the same reason, perhaps in the presence of the apostles (such as on the Mount of transfiguration).  Hugh Nibley suggested that the original apostles received all the temple ordinances during the Savior&#039;s 40-day ministry with them before his final ascension into heaven, as indicated in his article on the early Christian stories about the apostles and the prayer circle.  

Brigham Young said (in public) that the endowment is to receive the tokens and keys so that, as we ascend to the Celestial Kingdom, we can demonstrate to the angels posted along the way that we have received the proper instruction and performed the proper ordinances and made the proper covenants.  Surely no angel is going to stop the Savior.  
 
The endowment we receive consists of a narrative and covenants, culminating in prayer and entry through the veil into the Celestial Kingdom.  When we participate in this ordinance, we are assuming the roles of Adam and Eve in creation, the Fall, mortal life and its confrontation with Satan, and redemption through the Atonement.  Did Adam have to perform an endowment ordinance to recapitulate his real life experiences? I doubt it.  And by the same token, Christ was also a personal participant in all of the events depicted.  As he achieved a full understanding of his identity, largely during his 40 day sojourn in the wilderness after his baptism, surely the veil was pierced and he recalled his own actions, which we depict in the endowment.  We are told in the Gospels that he had a direct confrontation with Lucifer.  

In particular, when he performed the Atonement, Christ assumed the burden of the experiences of Adam and Eve, and fulfilled in reality the things which we only simulate in the ordinance, including his descent into the Spirit World and his ascension into the presence of the Father.  

I would argue that, regardless of whether Christ ever formally performed such ordinances, his life as Creator, Messiah,  Redeemer, and Son of God enacted in reality all of the things which are symbolized in the modern Endowment.  

In any case, I don&#039;t think we need to worry about him qualifying for exaltation.  The desire to know the details of how and when he fulfilled the purpose of the endowment, or other ordinances we participate in, amounts to a kind of spiritual voyeurism.  We should be content with knowing that everything we do in the temples is in an effort to follow him and go where he is.  Every temple is his house.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We know that Christ received baptism as an example to all of us, &#8220;to fulfill all righteousness.&#8221; It is possible that he would undergo other ordinances for the same reason, perhaps in the presence of the apostles (such as on the Mount of transfiguration).  Hugh Nibley suggested that the original apostles received all the temple ordinances during the Savior&#8217;s 40-day ministry with them before his final ascension into heaven, as indicated in his article on the early Christian stories about the apostles and the prayer circle.  </p>
<p>Brigham Young said (in public) that the endowment is to receive the tokens and keys so that, as we ascend to the Celestial Kingdom, we can demonstrate to the angels posted along the way that we have received the proper instruction and performed the proper ordinances and made the proper covenants.  Surely no angel is going to stop the Savior.  </p>
<p>The endowment we receive consists of a narrative and covenants, culminating in prayer and entry through the veil into the Celestial Kingdom.  When we participate in this ordinance, we are assuming the roles of Adam and Eve in creation, the Fall, mortal life and its confrontation with Satan, and redemption through the Atonement.  Did Adam have to perform an endowment ordinance to recapitulate his real life experiences? I doubt it.  And by the same token, Christ was also a personal participant in all of the events depicted.  As he achieved a full understanding of his identity, largely during his 40 day sojourn in the wilderness after his baptism, surely the veil was pierced and he recalled his own actions, which we depict in the endowment.  We are told in the Gospels that he had a direct confrontation with Lucifer.  </p>
<p>In particular, when he performed the Atonement, Christ assumed the burden of the experiences of Adam and Eve, and fulfilled in reality the things which we only simulate in the ordinance, including his descent into the Spirit World and his ascension into the presence of the Father.  </p>
<p>I would argue that, regardless of whether Christ ever formally performed such ordinances, his life as Creator, Messiah,  Redeemer, and Son of God enacted in reality all of the things which are symbolized in the modern Endowment.  </p>
<p>In any case, I don&#8217;t think we need to worry about him qualifying for exaltation.  The desire to know the details of how and when he fulfilled the purpose of the endowment, or other ordinances we participate in, amounts to a kind of spiritual voyeurism.  We should be content with knowing that everything we do in the temples is in an effort to follow him and go where he is.  Every temple is his house.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: R. U Kiddingme?</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/07/speculation/#comment-295607</link>
		<dc:creator>R. U Kiddingme?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 03:56:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=8900#comment-295607</guid>
		<description>wow.  I want what they (the mormons) are smoking.  I used to be one and things have gotten way weirder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wow.  I want what they (the mormons) are smoking.  I used to be one and things have gotten way weirder.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark B.</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/07/speculation/#comment-295606</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 03:15:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=8900#comment-295606</guid>
		<description>Of course, if we were in Britain, we&#039;d have endowments to &quot;take away.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, if we were in Britain, we&#8217;d have endowments to &#8220;take away.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Valencic</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/07/speculation/#comment-295604</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Valencic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 02:03:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=8900#comment-295604</guid>
		<description>My mother has always speculated that the phrase &quot;taking out&quot; one&#039;s endowment is derived from the Catholic notion of taking vows. But then, that may be just because she was raised Catholic and had considered becoming a nun at some point in her childhood.

Concerning the other speculation, I find myself torn between the notion of Christ receiving keys during his experience on the Mount of Transfiguration and the notion that, being the great Jehovah, the authority was inherent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My mother has always speculated that the phrase &#8220;taking out&#8221; one&#8217;s endowment is derived from the Catholic notion of taking vows. But then, that may be just because she was raised Catholic and had considered becoming a nun at some point in her childhood.</p>
<p>Concerning the other speculation, I find myself torn between the notion of Christ receiving keys during his experience on the Mount of Transfiguration and the notion that, being the great Jehovah, the authority was inherent.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mark N.</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/07/speculation/#comment-295595</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark N.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 21:12:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=8900#comment-295595</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;And, yes, the proper terminology is “receive one’s endowment” not “take out one’s endowment.”&lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;m waiting for temples with drive-up windows.  I&#039;ll bet I can &quot;take out&quot; my endowment then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>And, yes, the proper terminology is “receive one’s endowment” not “take out one’s endowment.”</i></p>
<p>I&#8217;m waiting for temples with drive-up windows.  I&#8217;ll bet I can &#8220;take out&#8221; my endowment then.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark N.</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/07/speculation/#comment-295594</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark N.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 21:10:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=8900#comment-295594</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;7.I hope you also devoted an appropriate amount of time to the question of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin!&lt;/i&gt;

As one of my mission Zone Leaders once said, &quot;The answer to that can be found in &#039;Answers to Gospel Mysteries&#039;, Volume 6, right after the article on the geography of Kolob.&quot;

I tend to get irritated with speculative threads, but then sometimes I have to wonder if we&#039;d have anything to blog about at all if all speculation was done away with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>7.I hope you also devoted an appropriate amount of time to the question of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin!</i></p>
<p>As one of my mission Zone Leaders once said, &#8220;The answer to that can be found in &#8216;Answers to Gospel Mysteries&#8217;, Volume 6, right after the article on the geography of Kolob.&#8221;</p>
<p>I tend to get irritated with speculative threads, but then sometimes I have to wonder if we&#8217;d have anything to blog about at all if all speculation was done away with.</p>
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