I got caught up doing family stuff this weekend, but I should be posting part 2 later tonight or early tomorrow morning. Thanks all for the encouragement.

In response to your response (21) to my response (19), you’ve certainly shown that it’s possible to find a couple of statements by Church leaders and in Ensign articles here or there that agree with the “different Jesus” sentiment. But there are plenty more that examine/wonder why the heck evangelicals don’t think we’re Christian. To wit (the most recent I could find with a 5-second Google search):

“I don’t know. I can’t understand it. The very name of the church is the name of Jesus Christ. Our whole message is centered around Christ. The Book of Mormon is an additional witness for Christ. Everything we do is done in the name of Christ. I don’t understand why people say we’re not Christians.” – Gordon B. Hinckley in interview for the PBS show The Mormons.

Of course I understand that what some people mean is that our style of worship and our understanding of Jesus is different than theirs (though it’s not as much as they think) — I just don’t agree at all with the way they say it, claiming that I worship a “different” Jesus. That’s ill-informed at best, and at worst it’s an intentionally hurtful repetition of a worn-out sound-bite.

At any rate, keep on posting! Go, Jack, go!

Jon

I enjoyed your post. I agree that LDS have a somewhat different concept of Jesus than do other followers of Jesus. I think that Roman Catholics also have a somewhat different concept of Jesus than do many evangelicals–particularly in their soteriology.

One might claim that the LDS concept of social trinitarianism is the reason the LDS concept of Jesus is fundamentally different from either the evangelical or Catholic concept of the Trinity. Yet it looks to me like social trinitarianism is not a unique LDS concept of the Trinity, and is being debated in non-LDS Christian circles. See, e.g., W. Hasker, A Leftovian Trinity, Faith and Philosophy 154 (April 2009) (critiquing a critique of social trinitarianism).

Of course, other religious traditions (like Islam and Judaism), not usually considered Christian, believe in Jesus in the sense that He existed and even that He was a great man, inspired, or even a prophet–but do not accept Him as God the Son.

In my experience, many people transform (a) the correct proposition that Mormons believe in a different concept of Jesus than traditional Christians to mean (b) the incorrect proposition that Mormons do not regard Jesus as divine, the Son of God, and God Himself (as God the Son). Many think that the LDS concept of Jesus is similar to the concept of Jesus in Islam or Judaism or Buddhism or Hinduism.

Thus, a few years ago, my assistant at work apologized for giving me a Christmas card with a picture of the baby Jesus and the manger on it. She said she understood that Mormons do not worship Christ and were not Christian and was concerned I would be offended by the religious Christmas card she gave me. I cleared that up with her.

But I was surprised that after 10 years of working with me and 20 years of working at a law firm about 10% of whom are LDS that she would have this erroneous idea. Moreover, her husband (a Catholic, as she is) had been a police officer in Utah for 20 years and had been married twice (sequentially) there and has children still living there. I gather his concept of LDS beliefs was not much different from hers.

It leads me to think that many or even most non-LDS conflate the correct notion of the LDS believing in a “different concept” of Jesus with the incorrect view that LDS do not believe in Jesus as Divine and as God the Son.

In that respect, I agree with and endorse the Brethren’s decisions to reemphasize the connectedness of the LDS Church with a fundamental belief and acceptance of Jesus as Divine, the Core and Head of the Church, as God the Son.

I think that you’re doing an excellent job. Of course you’re talking interfaith dialogue. Not to knock on your zombie movie skillz, but interfaith dialogue is the reason we thought you would be a good guest. (And I think we’ve been shown to absolutely right on that score.)

Thanks for your comment engagement, too. You’re not just posting good stuff, you’re taking time to engage in comments on a broad topic which, even among good faith discussants, can tend to generate confusion.

You’re doing a great job, Jack — don’t change a thing.

Thomas Parkin ~ I applaud you for being willing to consider the perspective of those who do use the “different Jesus” rhetoric. I don’t like that argument myself because I think it’s so often employed by evangelicals in a hurtful and insulting way that shuts down constructive conversation, but part of me does see the logic behind it, and apparently you see it, too.

I gotta warn you though, I’m sure your “Crow” quote is going to wind up on one of Aaron Shafovaloff’s lists showing Mormon bloggers and pro-Mormon sources who back up the arguments of the counter-cult ministry. ;)

Matt H ~ I’ve been procrastinating on your heaven question because the answer is, I don’t know very much of what heaven is going to be like, and I’m sure it will only open the conversation to more discussion of our differences, but here goes. I can tell you that evangelicals:

(1) Don’t believe it involves marriage or sexuality (Matthew 22:30—I know Mormons have other interpretations of this verse, but that’s how we take it). Whether we will be sexless or gender will simply not have its earthly functions, we don’t really know. Jesus was described as being male after His resurrection, and the angels are described as being male with possible female angels described in Zechariah 5:9, so I think it’s the latter.
(2) Know it will involve bliss beyond our wildest dreams.
(3) Some of us advocate a form of evangelical deification (which I’ll cover in more detail in my next post). We don’t believe we’ll ever be Gods to other people like some Mormons do though.

Do Mormons have a better idea of the afterlife? I think that depends on your perspective. I can get into that more if people really want, but it’s really not hard to find ideas about the other person’s afterlife which sound really unattractive to us now.

About the “Different Jesus” argument, I simply acknowledge that both “sides” accept the biblical teachings about Christ, but we interpret them through different lenses. So yes, there this is a difference. I don’t think anyone claims “we’re the same”. However, even though we have differences in our Christian beliefs, (ie: Evangelicals believe in the Trinity where all three persons are one being; I believe in the Godhead where three distinct beings are one completely unified God) do those differences really mean that we’re worshiping a “different Jesus”? I think the better answer is that perhaps we’re just worshiping Jesus differently.

Having now been in Utah six months, or so, it’s already difficult for me to imagine clearly that world where we are outnumbered. I bet you’re right, though.

Kind of funny aside. I talked to a friend of mine yesterday who has just moved to a town north of Houston. He told me that on his drive into work he passes a billboard for a local Realtor. It has the obligatory happy picture of a couple and under it says “Mr. and Mrs. So and So, Realtors Ordained by God.” And I thought, *choke*, oh my, I’m so glad to be in Utah. (But not Provo, Bridget – I still wouldn’t be happy to be in Provo.) ~

I see more commonality with Christians in general than I do differences. The biggest thing is we both believe that a Christ centered life changes us. One group calls it Born Again and the others calls it faith and works. Both have the same steps pray earnestly and with sincere heart and study his word and feel the change come over your heart. You then show love by following Christ. The bigger difference is one has to have a white shirt on and use big words nobody else uses to do it and the other shorts and a golf shirt.

Enjoyed the post

While I don’t have any particular objection to someone telling me I believe in a different Jesus, for the reasons given, it isn’t something I would say about someone else.

That’s how I think too. It would be very easy to say, “well because they don’t believe in Jesus the way I believe in Jesus, they must not be true Christians.” But it’s just not accurate.

Would Mormons be in a different state of mind, however, if Mormons had greater numbers than Evangelicals? Would it be easier for us to state, as they state toward us, that they are not believers in the “real” Christ and not be bothered if they are offended?

While I don’t have any particular objection to someone telling me I believe in a different Jesus, for the reasons given, it isn’t something I would say about someone else. Rather, I think all believers have some things right and some things wrong. It seems to me that the true Christian project isn’t to utterly to concepts but to learn using the spiritual tools available. In other words, the real possibility of learning about God, from God, is more important than one’s precise beliefs at any given time, and stasis is the undesirable quality. ~