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	<title>Comments on: Why We&#8217;re Confused</title>
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	<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/06/why-were-confused/</link>
	<description>Truth Will Prevail</description>
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		<title>By: Kevin Winters</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/06/why-were-confused/#comment-295075</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Winters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 04:10:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=8744#comment-295075</guid>
		<description>Of course you can nail jello to the wall, you just need a lot of nails to distribute the weight of the jello so it&#039;s not all hanging on one nail. I don&#039;t know exactly how that translates from the metaphor to the real-life issue, but there ya go!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course you can nail jello to the wall, you just need a lot of nails to distribute the weight of the jello so it&#8217;s not all hanging on one nail. I don&#8217;t know exactly how that translates from the metaphor to the real-life issue, but there ya go!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Clean Cut</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/06/why-were-confused/#comment-294992</link>
		<dc:creator>Clean Cut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 17:19:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=8744#comment-294992</guid>
		<description>aquinas, perhaps you should write it!  I most certainly would find such a book helpful, as well as fascinating.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>aquinas, perhaps you should write it!  I most certainly would find such a book helpful, as well as fascinating.</p>
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		<title>By: aquinas</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/06/why-were-confused/#comment-294981</link>
		<dc:creator>aquinas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:05:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=8744#comment-294981</guid>
		<description>Kevin, Kent and Blake.  I didn&#039;t really know others also felt the same way about the usefulness of a History of Mormon Theology, which is a book I&#039;ve wished I could obtain and then realized it hadn&#039;t been written yet.  Given the Mormon proclivity for documenting history, it would seem like the natural thing to do.  In my own research and studies, I&#039;ve been able to connect theological influences and ideas among various individuals.  I personally enjoy intellectual histories in the Western tradition and theological histories in Christianity in general.  In some ways, it is difficult to know not only where you are, but why you are where you, are until you know where you’ve been.  It isn&#039;t simply a question of identifying what a belief is.  Beliefs don&#039;t occur in a vacuum, but they arise out of social and historical contexts.  I wouldn&#039;t conceive that such a book would follow completed theologies throughout LDS history, rather it would follow proponents and the beliefs that they develop or champion and the trends, events, and individuals they are reacting to when they write.  There are many reasons I can imagine why this hasn&#039;t been done.  There is a tendency to assume continuity where there is none, or to harmonize theological positions.

Personally, I do not think that Mormon doctrine is difficult to &quot;pin down,&quot; Evangelical frustrations notwithstanding.  I think the reality is more that the landscape and contours of doctrine and theology between Evangelicalism and Mormonism do not have a one-to-one isomorphism.  Understanding the history of the development of these views explains why it is that a body of theological thought takes on the shape that it does.  In my view, it is less of question of difficulty identifying official Mormon doctrine, as much as the realization that there may not be an official Mormon doctrine on every point of religious inquiry.  Often the reason for this is either that the theological system does not lend itself to producing questions in certain areas or there is no proponent arguing otherwise.  For example, Mormonism has not produced a need for a dual nature of Christ or a need to create a system of incommunicable and communicable attributes.  Mormonism has not developed a need to teach that Christ had pre-fallen Adamic human nature, as other Christian theologies do.  The very concept of &quot;nature&quot; in Mormonism is different from that as was developed in historic Christian philosophy.  Why is this?  It&#039;s in the history.  On the other hand, Mormon thinkers have struggled with how to explain God as knowing everything and yet still progressing.  Mormon thinkers have struggled with how there can be literal parent-child relationship between God and man given a theology where intelligences cannot be created and are co-eternal.  These theological whirlpools are completely absent in traditional Christian theologies. Why?  It&#039;s in the history.  Identifying the solutions and outlining the contributions made by various individuals in response to such questions is something that seems critically important.  As I speak with various individuals I can sense where and what schools of thought seem to influence them.  Yet, the resources to explain and more deeply understand these theological currents do not yet exist, or I suppose I should say that there are many resources, and many people who have contributed to my understanding in this area, but the scholarship hasn’t been gathered together in one volume, and of course other areas have not yet been explored.  I imagine that if such a book were produced it would be heavily criticized and attacked on many fronts, but perhaps that isn&#039;t necessarily a bad thing.  Perhaps it would simply move the discussion and dialogue in new fresh directions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin, Kent and Blake.  I didn&#8217;t really know others also felt the same way about the usefulness of a History of Mormon Theology, which is a book I&#8217;ve wished I could obtain and then realized it hadn&#8217;t been written yet.  Given the Mormon proclivity for documenting history, it would seem like the natural thing to do.  In my own research and studies, I&#8217;ve been able to connect theological influences and ideas among various individuals.  I personally enjoy intellectual histories in the Western tradition and theological histories in Christianity in general.  In some ways, it is difficult to know not only where you are, but why you are where you, are until you know where you’ve been.  It isn&#8217;t simply a question of identifying what a belief is.  Beliefs don&#8217;t occur in a vacuum, but they arise out of social and historical contexts.  I wouldn&#8217;t conceive that such a book would follow completed theologies throughout LDS history, rather it would follow proponents and the beliefs that they develop or champion and the trends, events, and individuals they are reacting to when they write.  There are many reasons I can imagine why this hasn&#8217;t been done.  There is a tendency to assume continuity where there is none, or to harmonize theological positions.</p>
<p>Personally, I do not think that Mormon doctrine is difficult to &#8220;pin down,&#8221; Evangelical frustrations notwithstanding.  I think the reality is more that the landscape and contours of doctrine and theology between Evangelicalism and Mormonism do not have a one-to-one isomorphism.  Understanding the history of the development of these views explains why it is that a body of theological thought takes on the shape that it does.  In my view, it is less of question of difficulty identifying official Mormon doctrine, as much as the realization that there may not be an official Mormon doctrine on every point of religious inquiry.  Often the reason for this is either that the theological system does not lend itself to producing questions in certain areas or there is no proponent arguing otherwise.  For example, Mormonism has not produced a need for a dual nature of Christ or a need to create a system of incommunicable and communicable attributes.  Mormonism has not developed a need to teach that Christ had pre-fallen Adamic human nature, as other Christian theologies do.  The very concept of &#8220;nature&#8221; in Mormonism is different from that as was developed in historic Christian philosophy.  Why is this?  It&#8217;s in the history.  On the other hand, Mormon thinkers have struggled with how to explain God as knowing everything and yet still progressing.  Mormon thinkers have struggled with how there can be literal parent-child relationship between God and man given a theology where intelligences cannot be created and are co-eternal.  These theological whirlpools are completely absent in traditional Christian theologies. Why?  It&#8217;s in the history.  Identifying the solutions and outlining the contributions made by various individuals in response to such questions is something that seems critically important.  As I speak with various individuals I can sense where and what schools of thought seem to influence them.  Yet, the resources to explain and more deeply understand these theological currents do not yet exist, or I suppose I should say that there are many resources, and many people who have contributed to my understanding in this area, but the scholarship hasn’t been gathered together in one volume, and of course other areas have not yet been explored.  I imagine that if such a book were produced it would be heavily criticized and attacked on many fronts, but perhaps that isn&#8217;t necessarily a bad thing.  Perhaps it would simply move the discussion and dialogue in new fresh directions.</p>
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		<title>By: Kaimi Wenger</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/06/why-were-confused/#comment-294924</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaimi Wenger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 04:28:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=8744#comment-294924</guid>
		<description>Our blog has the same organization as existed in the primitive church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.  Jack is the evangelist, obviously.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our blog has the same organization as existed in the primitive church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.  Jack is the evangelist, obviously.</p>
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		<title>By: Alison Moore Smith</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/06/why-were-confused/#comment-294922</link>
		<dc:creator>Alison Moore Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 00:14:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=8744#comment-294922</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;It is all too common to see Mormonism being denounced for a concept that is actually shared with one or more Evangelical churches or theologians, though not the one with which the attacking speaker is affiliated.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Years ago, when I lived in Boca Raton, Pat Robertson did a TV show on cults. Of course, we were featured stars! But on every single point he made, he could just as easily have been talking about the Catholic church. Strangely, though, the Catholic church was never mentioned as a cult.

I guess he just wanted to pick on the skinny kid in the room, instead of the big guy.

&lt;blockquote&gt;There are plenty of evangelical blogs out there, but they don’t seem to be as well-organized into a network like the Bloggernacle is.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Are we &quot;well-organized&quot;? I started &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.mormonmomma.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mormon Momma&lt;/a&gt; on January 1, 2003, when the original Circle of Sisters (I being one of the three) decided to stop writing for Meridian. I don&#039;t recall knowing about any other sites that had author articles and reader feedback. Now my site is listed on a couple of LDS blog aggregators--although at least one of them has a bad feed link. Other than that, I&#039;m not sure what organization we have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>It is all too common to see Mormonism being denounced for a concept that is actually shared with one or more Evangelical churches or theologians, though not the one with which the attacking speaker is affiliated.</p></blockquote>
<p>Years ago, when I lived in Boca Raton, Pat Robertson did a TV show on cults. Of course, we were featured stars! But on every single point he made, he could just as easily have been talking about the Catholic church. Strangely, though, the Catholic church was never mentioned as a cult.</p>
<p>I guess he just wanted to pick on the skinny kid in the room, instead of the big guy.</p>
<blockquote><p>There are plenty of evangelical blogs out there, but they don’t seem to be as well-organized into a network like the Bloggernacle is.</p></blockquote>
<p>Are we &#8220;well-organized&#8221;? I started <a href="http://www.mormonmomma.com" rel="nofollow">Mormon Momma</a> on January 1, 2003, when the original Circle of Sisters (I being one of the three) decided to stop writing for Meridian. I don&#8217;t recall knowing about any other sites that had author articles and reader feedback. Now my site is listed on a couple of LDS blog aggregators&#8211;although at least one of them has a bad feed link. Other than that, I&#8217;m not sure what organization we have.</p>
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		<title>By: Alison Moore Smith</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/06/why-were-confused/#comment-294921</link>
		<dc:creator>Alison Moore Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 23:56:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=8744#comment-294921</guid>
		<description>Hey, Jack, I missed your guest-blogger into. Welcome! I look forward to reading!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, Jack, I missed your guest-blogger into. Welcome! I look forward to reading!</p>
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		<title>By: Bookslinger</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/06/why-were-confused/#comment-294879</link>
		<dc:creator>Bookslinger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 22:13:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=8744#comment-294879</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;ray&lt;/b&gt;: &lt;i&gt;How are Evangelicals supposed to treat a book whose publishing history seems so outre, but whose actual sermons (e.g. King Benjamin’s sermon, Abinadi’s sermon, Alma’s discourse on faith in Alma 32) would be hailed and embraced by many Christians if it were among the Nag Hammadi library,...&lt;/i&gt;

Those sermons made Vincenzo di Francesca, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDcodO5xts0  the most popular pastor in his church until his supervisors found out  where he got them from.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>ray</b>: <i>How are Evangelicals supposed to treat a book whose publishing history seems so outre, but whose actual sermons (e.g. King Benjamin’s sermon, Abinadi’s sermon, Alma’s discourse on faith in Alma 32) would be hailed and embraced by many Christians if it were among the Nag Hammadi library,&#8230;</i></p>
<p>Those sermons made Vincenzo di Francesca, <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDcodO5xts0" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDcodO5xts0</a>  the most popular pastor in his church until his supervisors found out  where he got them from.</p>
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		<title>By: Bookslinger</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/06/why-were-confused/#comment-294877</link>
		<dc:creator>Bookslinger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 22:05:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=8744#comment-294877</guid>
		<description>I spent about a year in the Evangelical/Fundamental movement of Christianity during my teens in the 1970&#039;s.  I have to say it prepared me for discovering, investigating, and accepting the &lt;i&gt;restored gospel&lt;/i&gt; as taught by the LDS church. 

Of the basics that I picked up as a teenager, some were those essential things that also happen to be items of overlap, or in common with, LDS gospel principles: God is the same as before, He&#039;s not a respecter of persons, getting answers to prayers, miracles, personal revelation through the Spirit.

Yeah, God &lt;i&gt;could&lt;/i&gt; call a prophet today, just like He did in the past.  Yeah, God &lt;i&gt;could&lt;/i&gt; start training him as a boy, like He did with Samuel.  Yeah, Jesus &lt;i&gt;could&lt;/i&gt; show his post-resurrection body to people in America, just like he did in Jerusalem.  Yeah, God &lt;i&gt;could&lt;/i&gt; answer my prayer to know &quot;if these things are true&quot;, because He answered my prayers in the past.  Yeah, this Mormon thing about &quot;influence of&quot; and &quot;gift of&quot; the Holy Ghost sounds like the Evangelical thing of &quot;walking in the Spirit&quot;.

I already knew &quot;some churches were &#039;truer&#039; than others&quot; from my Evangelical experience.  Evangelicals/Fundamentalists taught me churches who don&#039;t believe in modern miracles, and spiritual gifts, and outpourings of the Spirit, didn&#039;t have the whole picture.   

Evangelicals/Fundamentalists taught me that some churches practice &quot;churchianity&quot;, that is, the traditions of men that aren&#039;t really Bible-based, and don&#039;t conform to the Christianity of the Bible.

So in fact, it was Evangelicals/Funamentalists who taught me the concept of being &quot;open ended&quot; and look for &quot;more God&quot; and &quot;more Spirit&quot;.

&quot;Mormonism&quot; is the fulfillment of that to me.  In fact, Mormonism &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; &quot;open ended&quot;, because it teaches that God reveals mysteries and advanced doctrine to you by the Spirit as fast as you can receive it, that God can reveal literally anything that is within your sphere of authority, or general information that is within your ability to handle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I spent about a year in the Evangelical/Fundamental movement of Christianity during my teens in the 1970&#8242;s.  I have to say it prepared me for discovering, investigating, and accepting the <i>restored gospel</i> as taught by the LDS church. </p>
<p>Of the basics that I picked up as a teenager, some were those essential things that also happen to be items of overlap, or in common with, LDS gospel principles: God is the same as before, He&#8217;s not a respecter of persons, getting answers to prayers, miracles, personal revelation through the Spirit.</p>
<p>Yeah, God <i>could</i> call a prophet today, just like He did in the past.  Yeah, God <i>could</i> start training him as a boy, like He did with Samuel.  Yeah, Jesus <i>could</i> show his post-resurrection body to people in America, just like he did in Jerusalem.  Yeah, God <i>could</i> answer my prayer to know &#8220;if these things are true&#8221;, because He answered my prayers in the past.  Yeah, this Mormon thing about &#8220;influence of&#8221; and &#8220;gift of&#8221; the Holy Ghost sounds like the Evangelical thing of &#8220;walking in the Spirit&#8221;.</p>
<p>I already knew &#8220;some churches were &#8216;truer&#8217; than others&#8221; from my Evangelical experience.  Evangelicals/Fundamentalists taught me churches who don&#8217;t believe in modern miracles, and spiritual gifts, and outpourings of the Spirit, didn&#8217;t have the whole picture.   </p>
<p>Evangelicals/Fundamentalists taught me that some churches practice &#8220;churchianity&#8221;, that is, the traditions of men that aren&#8217;t really Bible-based, and don&#8217;t conform to the Christianity of the Bible.</p>
<p>So in fact, it was Evangelicals/Funamentalists who taught me the concept of being &#8220;open ended&#8221; and look for &#8220;more God&#8221; and &#8220;more Spirit&#8221;.</p>
<p>&#8220;Mormonism&#8221; is the fulfillment of that to me.  In fact, Mormonism <i>is</i> &#8220;open ended&#8221;, because it teaches that God reveals mysteries and advanced doctrine to you by the Spirit as fast as you can receive it, that God can reveal literally anything that is within your sphere of authority, or general information that is within your ability to handle.</p>
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		<title>By: Bridget Jack Meyers</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/06/why-were-confused/#comment-294875</link>
		<dc:creator>Bridget Jack Meyers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:48:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=8744#comment-294875</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Justmeherenow&lt;/strong&gt; ~ Done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Justmeherenow</strong> ~ Done.</p>
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		<title>By: Justmeherenow</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/06/why-were-confused/#comment-294874</link>
		<dc:creator>Justmeherenow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:44:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=8744#comment-294874</guid>
		<description>Jack, wudja mind deleting my 4 previous comments (now at #52-55)? 

I&#039;d written what, I guess, was worth its being at most a 10-words-long question 1-phrase long question (turned into a ridiculous ramble...that I&#039;ve now re-posted at  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Justmeherenow/Evangi-nacle_essay ).........</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jack, wudja mind deleting my 4 previous comments (now at #52-55)? </p>
<p>I&#8217;d written what, I guess, was worth its being at most a 10-words-long question 1-phrase long question (turned into a ridiculous ramble&#8230;that I&#8217;ve now re-posted at  <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Justmeherenow/Evangi-nacle_essay" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Justmeherenow/Evangi-nacle_essay</a> )&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;</p>
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