Picking up where I left off:

Luke (#33), I’m not disagreeing with you.

Nate (#34), I agree. I think two issues have become conflated in this thread: (1) why I personally won’t reveal certain things about the temple [I think you explain this issue well] and (2) why it matters if non-endowed people know what happens in the temple. I’m suggesting something other than the usual answer for (2).

Mark B. (#45)– By panacea, I mean that if you think there is no point in traveling the world because you already saw all the good stuff on Planet Earth, you are using the show as a panacea.

abiogenesis, I think you are actually making a very good point that we send people to the temple unprepared for what they encounter there. (We had to delete one of your comments for being too specific.) LDS should do better in preparing people–there is a lot we can say that would be helpful and not inappropriate.

scarecrowfromoz (#115), Sorry about that. I changed ‘priest’ to ‘pastor’ in the original post and I appreciate the correction. However, I’m seeing all sorts of examples of Methodist pastors in religious clothing:

http://www.franklinvilleumc.org/

So I don’t understand that part of your comment.

All: I’m going to close comments; we normally do that around #100, but are a little behind schedule (because I went to IKEA!). Also, the thread is spinning off on a million (interesting) tangents, and we’ve lost focus. If you have something crucial to say, you can email me.

Thanks for your participation.

I think you’ve actually made my point. It does throw into question the doctrine of the Church. I don’t think you’re saying that President Hinckley didn’t know about D&C 132. It does sound like you’re saying that President Hinckley used spin to respond to Larry. Words have meaning. If he didn’t believe the words he was using, he had no justification (ESPECIALLY as a prophet) to use them.

Women are still defending polygamy. Many fundamental mormon women will defend polygamy till their blue in the face… that doesn’t mean it’s right, but you know that already. I don’t know how you can say it’s not doctrinal? Saying polygamy wasn’t doctrinal then throws into question anything that’s presented as doctrinal in the D&C. And if the “doctrinality” (I like making up words) of the D&C is questionable then everything else about the church is questionable.

You’ll also notice that GBH said, “I THINK it’s not doctrinal” “think” being the key term here. I’m not a prophet or anything, but I do have a degree in english and “thinking” something and “knowing” something don’t just vary by small degrees, we’re talking potential world class leaps apart here. Plus the man was a prophet, right? You’d think god’s mouth piece would unequivocally be able to say, “no, Larry King, that is not doctrine. I know it.” GBH was a master PR man.

That sounds reasonable to me. Though, really, the defenses do seem very enthusiastic. It seems clear to me that a lot of early Mormon women really, strongly believed in polygamy.

Its hard not to be offended that this kind of coercion is still being defended when it is so obviously reprehensible. What was she 14? 16?

i honestly don’t get how anyone can defend this behavior. i guess that’s why its necessary to hide it. The whole thing is just so sad. The prozac popping women of the church now are under the same psychological yoke.

http://books.google.com/books?id=c872EUaDPdEC

Amen sister!

As I see it that is one of the issues–Polygamy is horrible on the societies that practice it. Not just the women; think of the poor guys who couldn’t find a wife because of those who had more than one. (Look it up, contrary to Mormon folklore, there were more men than women at least during most of the polygamy days in Utah.

The other issue is the fact that we lie and make silly excuses for polygamy. It’s ridiculous! Why doesn’t the Church apologize for this social experiment gone terribly bad? It was clearly a mistake. Even though it’s still in Doctrine and Covenants 132 (Mormon scripture) and is still practices in the temples for widowers remarrying in the temple, it is not doctrine. Why else would President Hinckley, speaking of polygamy to Larry King, state, “I condemn it, yes, as a practice, because I think it is not doctrinal”?

I think we can come a little closer to being on the same page if you consider the idea that the church teaches that we should teach “milk before meat.” The church uses this phrase a lot because they know their teachings are peculiar and tough to swallow for anybody that isn’t already indoctrinated. I used the phrase “bait and switch” previously but I should have used “milk before meat” because that phrase is familiar to all Mormons.

I wasn’t a rogue missionary. I was teacher of milk like most missionaries.

We taught contacts that Mormons attend the temple but nothing about what happens there. Missionaries don’t teach people that the church plan is to go to temple, wear peculiar clothes, learn some handshakes, get a new name, and make covenants to eventually become a God. The temple is where you get the meat and the missionaries and your Sunday School teachers teach the milk.

Members know this too or else they wouldn’t use the phrase milk before meat. Milk is not meat, meat is not milk, and the temple is nothing like the missionary discussions.

Alison. I am pretty sure we will never be on exactly the same page and I hope that is OK. I don’t have a problem with the temple and I am not an enemy. I do, however, think that as long as the church is in the business of sending out tens of thousands of missionaries, the public ought to know that there are tougher things to swallow coming after the missionary lessons are over.

Folks that want to know what the church is about don’t have a source from within the church. You can find out about the temple ceremony from Big Love or from a number of websites run by exmormons. I think that puts the church in an odd situation.

However, I should note that it’s hard to say that the women defending polygamy in the 1800s were lied to. These women did know about Joseph Smith plural wives; many of them *were* plural wives of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, or others.