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	<title>Comments on: Confronting Modernity</title>
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	<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/03/confronting-modernity/</link>
	<description>Truth Will Prevail</description>
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		<title>By: DavidH</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/03/confronting-modernity/#comment-287785</link>
		<dc:creator>DavidH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:45:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=7426#comment-287785</guid>
		<description>&quot;The defining feature of Mormonism is its literalism&quot;

No question that most mainstream Mormons subscribe to literalism.  But I would argue that another, perhaps overriding feature of Mormonism, is its lack of an official creed or formalized, systematized theology.  Along those lines, there is in Mormonism a powerful implicit or explicit strain of embracing all truths or good or ideas from whereever found.  

Thus, while literalism is dominant among most members, and perhaps in correlated materials produced by the Church, the absence of a creed or systematized theology allows us to explore all sorts of alternative, free wheeling discussion and explanations of life and reality and meaning.  See, e.g., http://pc2009.confreaks.com.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The defining feature of Mormonism is its literalism&#8221;</p>
<p>No question that most mainstream Mormons subscribe to literalism.  But I would argue that another, perhaps overriding feature of Mormonism, is its lack of an official creed or formalized, systematized theology.  Along those lines, there is in Mormonism a powerful implicit or explicit strain of embracing all truths or good or ideas from whereever found.  </p>
<p>Thus, while literalism is dominant among most members, and perhaps in correlated materials produced by the Church, the absence of a creed or systematized theology allows us to explore all sorts of alternative, free wheeling discussion and explanations of life and reality and meaning.  See, e.g., <a href="http://pc2009.confreaks.com" rel="nofollow">http://pc2009.confreaks.com</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Colby</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/03/confronting-modernity/#comment-287756</link>
		<dc:creator>Colby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2009 05:35:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=7426#comment-287756</guid>
		<description>The defining feature of Mormonism is its literalism, which is antithetical to the dominant trends of continental philosophy (hermeneutics, deconstruction, etc) although in its insistence on finitude, it may have something in common with Heideggerian existentialism.  

In my judgment, the absence of metaphor in LDS theology leaves no possibility for the competing claims of science and religion to be resolved or even discussed.  The result is an absurdly contradictory metaphysical system which uses the most ordinary canons of truth to assess the likelihood of the most unbelievable events (how can anyone even claim to &quot;know&quot; the truth of Mormonism&#039;s founding events in the same way they know what they had for breakfast that morning?)  

With the so-called &quot;theological turn,&quot; post-modernism has taken up the question of faith in earnest but Mormonism has no category of faith comparable to that found in any of the other world religions -- in fact the &quot;traditional&quot; concept of faith seems weird and repugnant to Mormons, because it posits something beyond a horizon that Mormonism assumes is just the boundary of the physical universe, and therefore meaningless.  

And whereas post-modernism offers at least the potential of a phenomenological critique of capitalism (Milbank, et al.) Mormonism simply deifies material progress, which means that it is less of a religion than a metaphysical movement within the history of American capitalism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The defining feature of Mormonism is its literalism, which is antithetical to the dominant trends of continental philosophy (hermeneutics, deconstruction, etc) although in its insistence on finitude, it may have something in common with Heideggerian existentialism.  </p>
<p>In my judgment, the absence of metaphor in LDS theology leaves no possibility for the competing claims of science and religion to be resolved or even discussed.  The result is an absurdly contradictory metaphysical system which uses the most ordinary canons of truth to assess the likelihood of the most unbelievable events (how can anyone even claim to &#8220;know&#8221; the truth of Mormonism&#8217;s founding events in the same way they know what they had for breakfast that morning?)  </p>
<p>With the so-called &#8220;theological turn,&#8221; post-modernism has taken up the question of faith in earnest but Mormonism has no category of faith comparable to that found in any of the other world religions &#8212; in fact the &#8220;traditional&#8221; concept of faith seems weird and repugnant to Mormons, because it posits something beyond a horizon that Mormonism assumes is just the boundary of the physical universe, and therefore meaningless.  </p>
<p>And whereas post-modernism offers at least the potential of a phenomenological critique of capitalism (Milbank, et al.) Mormonism simply deifies material progress, which means that it is less of a religion than a metaphysical movement within the history of American capitalism.</p>
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		<title>By: T. Greer</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/03/confronting-modernity/#comment-287498</link>
		<dc:creator>T. Greer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 15:29:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=7426#comment-287498</guid>
		<description>@Richard: The closest you are going to get is the 1909 statement by the First Presidency on the matter of &quot;The Origin of Man&quot;: 

http://www.brettandcatherine.com/uploads/5/5/9/9/559987/the_orgin_of_man.pdf

If you are looking for the long-term position of the Church on the matter, I suggest you grab one of the several published anthologies of statements by General Authorities between Joseph Fielding and Gordon Hinckley.

http://www.amazon.com/Mormonism-Evolution-Authoritative-LDS-Statements/dp/1589580931</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Richard: The closest you are going to get is the 1909 statement by the First Presidency on the matter of &#8220;The Origin of Man&#8221;: </p>
<p><a href="http://www.brettandcatherine.com/uploads/5/5/9/9/559987/the_orgin_of_man.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.brettandcatherine.com/uploads/5/5/9/9/559987/the_orgin_of_man.pdf</a></p>
<p>If you are looking for the long-term position of the Church on the matter, I suggest you grab one of the several published anthologies of statements by General Authorities between Joseph Fielding and Gordon Hinckley.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Mormonism-Evolution-Authoritative-LDS-Statements/dp/1589580931" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Mormonism-Evolution-Authoritative-LDS-Statements/dp/1589580931</a></p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/03/confronting-modernity/#comment-287411</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2009 22:56:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=7426#comment-287411</guid>
		<description>Thanks, David.

I&#039;m also particularly interested in a topic another commenter noted: how Mormons understand evolution, given their belief in that the deity is of the same &quot;species&quot; as human beings.

Is there an official church teaching on this subject?

Thanks in advance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, David.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m also particularly interested in a topic another commenter noted: how Mormons understand evolution, given their belief in that the deity is of the same &#8220;species&#8221; as human beings.</p>
<p>Is there an official church teaching on this subject?</p>
<p>Thanks in advance.</p>
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		<title>By: aloysiusmiller</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/03/confronting-modernity/#comment-287406</link>
		<dc:creator>aloysiusmiller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2009 20:56:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=7426#comment-287406</guid>
		<description>Excuse us Richard for not holding still and conforming to your highly amateurish scholarship. Perhaps if you squinted just so you may get the illusion that we are the strawman that you want us to be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excuse us Richard for not holding still and conforming to your highly amateurish scholarship. Perhaps if you squinted just so you may get the illusion that we are the strawman that you want us to be.</p>
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		<title>By: DavidH</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/03/confronting-modernity/#comment-287404</link>
		<dc:creator>DavidH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2009 20:32:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=7426#comment-287404</guid>
		<description>While, under the 8th Article of Faith, Mormons only believe in the Bible to the extent it is translated correctly.  But the majority of Mormons do believe in Adam and Eve as literal persons and disbelieve in evolution.  I suspect is the same with respect to whether there was a worldwide flood, whether Job was a real person, when Jonah was really swallowed by a whale.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While, under the 8th Article of Faith, Mormons only believe in the Bible to the extent it is translated correctly.  But the majority of Mormons do believe in Adam and Eve as literal persons and disbelieve in evolution.  I suspect is the same with respect to whether there was a worldwide flood, whether Job was a real person, when Jonah was really swallowed by a whale.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/03/confronting-modernity/#comment-287403</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2009 20:23:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=7426#comment-287403</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Rob.

From the outside, it is difficult to understand these things as Mormons do.

As a (highly) amateur scholar on these matters, I do not see how Mormons continually &#039;erase&#039; such &#039;authoritative&#039; positions made by your leaders. It happens across the board, over and over.

I suppose from the inside this looks like the continuing guidance of the Spirit made possibly by prophetic leadership. Fair enough.  But from the outside it looks patently ridiculous and it makes it difficult to take your claims with intellectual seriousness, insofar as they are always open to revision as situations require.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Rob.</p>
<p>From the outside, it is difficult to understand these things as Mormons do.</p>
<p>As a (highly) amateur scholar on these matters, I do not see how Mormons continually &#8216;erase&#8217; such &#8216;authoritative&#8217; positions made by your leaders. It happens across the board, over and over.</p>
<p>I suppose from the inside this looks like the continuing guidance of the Spirit made possibly by prophetic leadership. Fair enough.  But from the outside it looks patently ridiculous and it makes it difficult to take your claims with intellectual seriousness, insofar as they are always open to revision as situations require.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Perkins</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/03/confronting-modernity/#comment-287397</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Perkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2009 15:46:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=7426#comment-287397</guid>
		<description>Richard, we allow that it might be true, but it doesn&#039;t really have impact on the facts of day to day religion or day to day living. Genesis is not understood to be literally true in Mormonism, but we don&#039;t kick people out of the Church who prefer to think that way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard, we allow that it might be true, but it doesn&#8217;t really have impact on the facts of day to day religion or day to day living. Genesis is not understood to be literally true in Mormonism, but we don&#8217;t kick people out of the Church who prefer to think that way.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/03/confronting-modernity/#comment-287393</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2009 13:00:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=7426#comment-287393</guid>
		<description>Dear Steve,

Thanks for your response.

It would seem from my outside perspective that Mormons have a great deal more invested in the literal historical truth of Genesis than other churches.

Having done a bit of reading in this area, it is overwhelmingly clear that the LDS church taught that Adam and Eve were historical persons. Joseph Smith even pointed out the altars that they used in Eden/Missouri, only to call to mind the silliest (sorry) example.

My question is: Do rank and file Mormons believe this? Are they taught this?

Thanks,

Ricahrd</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Steve,</p>
<p>Thanks for your response.</p>
<p>It would seem from my outside perspective that Mormons have a great deal more invested in the literal historical truth of Genesis than other churches.</p>
<p>Having done a bit of reading in this area, it is overwhelmingly clear that the LDS church taught that Adam and Eve were historical persons. Joseph Smith even pointed out the altars that they used in Eden/Missouri, only to call to mind the silliest (sorry) example.</p>
<p>My question is: Do rank and file Mormons believe this? Are they taught this?</p>
<p>Thanks,</p>
<p>Ricahrd</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2009/03/confronting-modernity/#comment-287381</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2009 03:43:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=7426#comment-287381</guid>
		<description>There exists some physical process by which water can be turned to wine.  I don&#039;t know how it&#039;s done; perhaps it&#039;s incomprehensible to the human mind.  Nevertheless, Jesus proved that it can be done, right here in the rock-solid Real World.

I don&#039;t believe in the &quot;supernatural&quot; (depending on how you define the word).  My God is a REAL person, who operates according to means and laws.  I acknowledge the existence of concepts and processes beyond my current comprehension, but my own mental limitations do not make these phenomena (walking on water, ascending into the sky without an aircraft, resurrecting the dead, etc.) any less &quot;natural.&quot;

The natural/supernatural dichotomy is an arbitrary human invention.  Who started it, the ancient Greeks?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There exists some physical process by which water can be turned to wine.  I don&#8217;t know how it&#8217;s done; perhaps it&#8217;s incomprehensible to the human mind.  Nevertheless, Jesus proved that it can be done, right here in the rock-solid Real World.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t believe in the &#8220;supernatural&#8221; (depending on how you define the word).  My God is a REAL person, who operates according to means and laws.  I acknowledge the existence of concepts and processes beyond my current comprehension, but my own mental limitations do not make these phenomena (walking on water, ascending into the sky without an aircraft, resurrecting the dead, etc.) any less &#8220;natural.&#8221;</p>
<p>The natural/supernatural dichotomy is an arbitrary human invention.  Who started it, the ancient Greeks?</p>
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