<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Elder Porter of the Seventy, in Newsweek</title>
	<atom:link href="http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/12/elder-porter-of-the-seventy-in-newsweek/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/12/elder-porter-of-the-seventy-in-newsweek/</link>
	<description>Truth Will Prevail</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 25 May 2012 03:45:22 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Adam Greenwood</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/12/elder-porter-of-the-seventy-in-newsweek/#comment-281588</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Greenwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Dec 2008 15:37:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=5028#comment-281588</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the comments all, and thanks to Elder Porter for his article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comments all, and thanks to Elder Porter for his article.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Eric Boysen</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/12/elder-porter-of-the-seventy-in-newsweek/#comment-281582</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Boysen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Dec 2008 13:56:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=5028#comment-281582</guid>
		<description>Gay marriage is not addressed by name anywhere in the scriptures. However, since gay marriage presupposes homosexuality, I looked at the Topical Guide and found 13 scripture references to homosexuality, 11 from the Bible:

Gen 13:13 - This passage does not identify the sins of Sodom, it just says that the men thereof were wicked. I thereby discard this passage as imprecise to the point of meaninglessness on the subject at hand.

Gen 18:20-22 - Same comment.

Gen 19:4-9 - This passage identifies the mob’s intent as homosexual rape, but on its own does not say whether it is the homosexuality or the mistreatment of strangers is the great evil. Let me add my personal revulsion towards Lot’s proposal that he let his daughters be raped instead. It appears he valued his responsibility as a host over his responsibility as a father. Yuck!

Lev 18:22-30 - The Topical Guide only identifies verses 22-27, but I think the others are also germane. This is direction to the priests which appear to have served as the civil authority in their time on what they are to teach the people. It condemns homosexuality explicitly in a list of other abominations including incest (both genetic and social – the marriage to more than one sister item is interesting in light of the relationship between G… Great Grandmas Rachel &amp; Leah), bestiality, and child sacrifice. These are not to be tolerated because the land will reject the whole of the people if these practices become common. The punishment specified is to be cut off from among the people. That could mean many things such as exile or being ignored as if one were dead. Today, I suppose, we would have to restrict it to excommunication.

Lev 20:13 The Topical guide also identifies verse 15 as relevant, but that verse is about bestiality. This verse is part of a second list of abominations that covers much of the same ground as the list in chapter 18. This list though prescribes death as punishment for these abominations, whereas the former used the softer language of being “cut off.” Why the harsher penalty in this chapter?

Deut 23:17 - This is a pronouncement rather than a law with penalty ascribed, but it could be read that one who practices homosexual behavior forfeits his identity as an Israelite.

Ezek 16:44-59 44  - The Topical Guide only cites verse 50 which refers to “abomination” which is presumed to mean homosexuality. This allegory compares Israel with Sodom and Samaria. Interesting, though that the sins of Sodom listed first are pride, gluttony, sloth and greed. The argument is that what Israel at that time was doing was worse than anything done in Sodom or Samaria, and yet Israel would be recovered by a loving God with Sodom and Samaria restored as well.

Rom 1:19-32 - The Topical Guide only lists verses 24-32. I include the preceding verses because the text identifies homosexuality of both men and women as a consequence of the sins of intellectual pride, ultimately making them “worthy of death.” As I understand it, the power to levy the death penalty had been pulled from the Jews and was supposed to be administered only under Roman law (mob action of stoning the adulteress or Stephen aside). Hence “worthy of death” is how they are described without indicating an actual death sentence is to be applied.

1 Cor 6:9 – The Topical Guide also indicates verse ten, but that does not have anything to do with homosexuality. This verse indicates that neither “effeminate” nor sexually active gays will inherit the Kingdom of God. What is included in effeminate? Cross-dressers? Non-sexually active gays? Eunuchs? I am not sure.

1 Tim 1:6-10 – The topical guide does not include verse 9, but the reason for citing homosexuality is stated in the earlier verse – The law was created for the unrighteous (such as sexually active gays among others), not for the righteous. This appears to be discussing people trying to teach the law and “jangling” because they don’t understand it. (Sounds like me as Gospel Doctrine teacher)

Jude: 1:4-7 – The Topical Guide only cites verse 7. The earlier verses talk about how the apostasy was beginning with some turning grace into lasciviousness (possibly men in the church misusing their office to satisfy their lusts?) with a comparison to Sodom, Gomorrah and the other cities of the plain being destroyed by God with fire because of their wickedness including lusting for “strange flesh.”

It appears to me that the Bible condemns homosexuality as an abomination before God, and by extension its institutionalization in the form of legally sanctioned gay marriage. Furthermore, social acceptance of homosexuality is looked at as a collective sin of the nation which subjects that nation to judgment and destruction by God. 

The authors of the Newsweek piece appear to believe God loves us too much to condemn us. That is the goop. Elder Porter and his fellows may not have a completely connected logical response in all particulars, but they are essentially right that the Bible condemns homosexuality and its social acceptance. Latter-day scripture and the words of modern prophets fill out the picture more fully, but do not change the basic message.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gay marriage is not addressed by name anywhere in the scriptures. However, since gay marriage presupposes homosexuality, I looked at the Topical Guide and found 13 scripture references to homosexuality, 11 from the Bible:</p>
<p>Gen 13:13 &#8211; This passage does not identify the sins of Sodom, it just says that the men thereof were wicked. I thereby discard this passage as imprecise to the point of meaninglessness on the subject at hand.</p>
<p>Gen 18:20-22 &#8211; Same comment.</p>
<p>Gen 19:4-9 &#8211; This passage identifies the mob’s intent as homosexual rape, but on its own does not say whether it is the homosexuality or the mistreatment of strangers is the great evil. Let me add my personal revulsion towards Lot’s proposal that he let his daughters be raped instead. It appears he valued his responsibility as a host over his responsibility as a father. Yuck!</p>
<p>Lev 18:22-30 &#8211; The Topical Guide only identifies verses 22-27, but I think the others are also germane. This is direction to the priests which appear to have served as the civil authority in their time on what they are to teach the people. It condemns homosexuality explicitly in a list of other abominations including incest (both genetic and social – the marriage to more than one sister item is interesting in light of the relationship between G… Great Grandmas Rachel &amp; Leah), bestiality, and child sacrifice. These are not to be tolerated because the land will reject the whole of the people if these practices become common. The punishment specified is to be cut off from among the people. That could mean many things such as exile or being ignored as if one were dead. Today, I suppose, we would have to restrict it to excommunication.</p>
<p>Lev 20:13 The Topical guide also identifies verse 15 as relevant, but that verse is about bestiality. This verse is part of a second list of abominations that covers much of the same ground as the list in chapter 18. This list though prescribes death as punishment for these abominations, whereas the former used the softer language of being “cut off.” Why the harsher penalty in this chapter?</p>
<p>Deut 23:17 &#8211; This is a pronouncement rather than a law with penalty ascribed, but it could be read that one who practices homosexual behavior forfeits his identity as an Israelite.</p>
<p>Ezek 16:44-59 44  &#8211; The Topical Guide only cites verse 50 which refers to “abomination” which is presumed to mean homosexuality. This allegory compares Israel with Sodom and Samaria. Interesting, though that the sins of Sodom listed first are pride, gluttony, sloth and greed. The argument is that what Israel at that time was doing was worse than anything done in Sodom or Samaria, and yet Israel would be recovered by a loving God with Sodom and Samaria restored as well.</p>
<p>Rom 1:19-32 &#8211; The Topical Guide only lists verses 24-32. I include the preceding verses because the text identifies homosexuality of both men and women as a consequence of the sins of intellectual pride, ultimately making them “worthy of death.” As I understand it, the power to levy the death penalty had been pulled from the Jews and was supposed to be administered only under Roman law (mob action of stoning the adulteress or Stephen aside). Hence “worthy of death” is how they are described without indicating an actual death sentence is to be applied.</p>
<p>1 Cor 6:9 – The Topical Guide also indicates verse ten, but that does not have anything to do with homosexuality. This verse indicates that neither “effeminate” nor sexually active gays will inherit the Kingdom of God. What is included in effeminate? Cross-dressers? Non-sexually active gays? Eunuchs? I am not sure.</p>
<p>1 Tim 1:6-10 – The topical guide does not include verse 9, but the reason for citing homosexuality is stated in the earlier verse – The law was created for the unrighteous (such as sexually active gays among others), not for the righteous. This appears to be discussing people trying to teach the law and “jangling” because they don’t understand it. (Sounds like me as Gospel Doctrine teacher)</p>
<p>Jude: 1:4-7 – The Topical Guide only cites verse 7. The earlier verses talk about how the apostasy was beginning with some turning grace into lasciviousness (possibly men in the church misusing their office to satisfy their lusts?) with a comparison to Sodom, Gomorrah and the other cities of the plain being destroyed by God with fire because of their wickedness including lusting for “strange flesh.”</p>
<p>It appears to me that the Bible condemns homosexuality as an abomination before God, and by extension its institutionalization in the form of legally sanctioned gay marriage. Furthermore, social acceptance of homosexuality is looked at as a collective sin of the nation which subjects that nation to judgment and destruction by God. </p>
<p>The authors of the Newsweek piece appear to believe God loves us too much to condemn us. That is the goop. Elder Porter and his fellows may not have a completely connected logical response in all particulars, but they are essentially right that the Bible condemns homosexuality and its social acceptance. Latter-day scripture and the words of modern prophets fill out the picture more fully, but do not change the basic message.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Murray</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/12/elder-porter-of-the-seventy-in-newsweek/#comment-281576</link>
		<dc:creator>Murray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Dec 2008 10:53:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=5028#comment-281576</guid>
		<description>Amen to Bookslinger in No 93.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amen to Bookslinger in No 93.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: MikeInWeHo</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/12/elder-porter-of-the-seventy-in-newsweek/#comment-281553</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeInWeHo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Dec 2008 01:29:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=5028#comment-281553</guid>
		<description>Sure, but I&#039;m traveling right now so it will have to be next week.  Stay tuned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure, but I&#8217;m traveling right now so it will have to be next week.  Stay tuned.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: mlu</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/12/elder-porter-of-the-seventy-in-newsweek/#comment-281545</link>
		<dc:creator>mlu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 21:43:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=5028#comment-281545</guid>
		<description>re 95

Wow. Could your present your evidence for that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re 95</p>
<p>Wow. Could your present your evidence for that?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Liberty</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/12/elder-porter-of-the-seventy-in-newsweek/#comment-281544</link>
		<dc:creator>Liberty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 21:21:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=5028#comment-281544</guid>
		<description>SLO Sapo,

Your artistry at quoting and proof-texting is noted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SLO Sapo,</p>
<p>Your artistry at quoting and proof-texting is noted.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: SLO Sapo</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/12/elder-porter-of-the-seventy-in-newsweek/#comment-281533</link>
		<dc:creator>SLO Sapo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 17:48:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=5028#comment-281533</guid>
		<description>These are for you, Liberty:

Psalm 56:4   . . . in God I have put my trust; I will not fear what flesh can do unto me.

2 Timothy 1:7   For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

1 John 4:18   There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

D&amp;C 10:55   Therefore, whosoever belongeth to my church need not fear . . .

D&amp;C 38:15   Therefore, be ye strong from henceforth; fear not, for the kingdom is yours.

D&amp;C 38:30   . . . but if ye are prepared ye shall not fear.

D&amp;C 50:41   Fear not, little children, for you are mine . . .

D&amp;C 68:6   Wherefore, be of good cheer, and do not fear, for I the Lord am with you, and will stand by you . . .

D&amp;C 98:1   VERILY I say unto you my friends, fear not, let your hearts be comforted . . .

D&amp;C 101:36   Wherefore, fear not even unto death . . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These are for you, Liberty:</p>
<p>Psalm 56:4   . . . in God I have put my trust; I will not fear what flesh can do unto me.</p>
<p>2 Timothy 1:7   For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.</p>
<p>1 John 4:18   There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.</p>
<p>D&amp;C 10:55   Therefore, whosoever belongeth to my church need not fear . . .</p>
<p>D&amp;C 38:15   Therefore, be ye strong from henceforth; fear not, for the kingdom is yours.</p>
<p>D&amp;C 38:30   . . . but if ye are prepared ye shall not fear.</p>
<p>D&amp;C 50:41   Fear not, little children, for you are mine . . .</p>
<p>D&amp;C 68:6   Wherefore, be of good cheer, and do not fear, for I the Lord am with you, and will stand by you . . .</p>
<p>D&amp;C 98:1   VERILY I say unto you my friends, fear not, let your hearts be comforted . . .</p>
<p>D&amp;C 101:36   Wherefore, fear not even unto death . . .</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Liberty</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/12/elder-porter-of-the-seventy-in-newsweek/#comment-281529</link>
		<dc:creator>Liberty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 15:54:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=5028#comment-281529</guid>
		<description>I believe that we are missing some major concerns if we stay focused on the causes of homosexuality or homosexuality = sin debates.  Gay activists are attempting (quite successfully, so far) to hijack our society and legal systems.  There are major ramifications if their worldview prevails over the traditional view.  Their victory (to quote the Newsweek article) would mean the eradication of &quot;any real conception of sin and guilt.&quot;  The only real sin in their worldview would be intolerance of their &quot;life-style choice.&quot;  Consult your handy BOM for a critique of that philosophy.  They could (and we have seen the beginnings of this) attack faith communities economically and attempt to indoctrinate our children with their philosophy.  This is a political battle, but it is also a battle for hearts and minds.  It is a battle that communities of faith can&#039;t afford to lose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe that we are missing some major concerns if we stay focused on the causes of homosexuality or homosexuality = sin debates.  Gay activists are attempting (quite successfully, so far) to hijack our society and legal systems.  There are major ramifications if their worldview prevails over the traditional view.  Their victory (to quote the Newsweek article) would mean the eradication of &#8220;any real conception of sin and guilt.&#8221;  The only real sin in their worldview would be intolerance of their &#8220;life-style choice.&#8221;  Consult your handy BOM for a critique of that philosophy.  They could (and we have seen the beginnings of this) attack faith communities economically and attempt to indoctrinate our children with their philosophy.  This is a political battle, but it is also a battle for hearts and minds.  It is a battle that communities of faith can&#8217;t afford to lose.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: MikeInWeHo</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/12/elder-porter-of-the-seventy-in-newsweek/#comment-281528</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeInWeHo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 15:29:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=5028#comment-281528</guid>
		<description>re: 93
So you&#039;re worried about Gays Gone Wild!

But seriously, there is no evidence that treating homosexual couples fairly results in an increased number of homosexuals.  In fact, as best I can tell it&#039;s just the opposite.  The incidence of homosexual behavior doesn&#039;t really vary much from society to society.  The same can be seen in animals as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re: 93<br />
So you&#8217;re worried about Gays Gone Wild!</p>
<p>But seriously, there is no evidence that treating homosexual couples fairly results in an increased number of homosexuals.  In fact, as best I can tell it&#8217;s just the opposite.  The incidence of homosexual behavior doesn&#8217;t really vary much from society to society.  The same can be seen in animals as well.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: mlu</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/12/elder-porter-of-the-seventy-in-newsweek/#comment-281511</link>
		<dc:creator>mlu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 07:40:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timesandseasons.org/?p=5028#comment-281511</guid>
		<description>#92 No. I&#039;m too lazy and have too little faith that the debate will be decided on the basis of facts and too little belief that people who ask for them actually want them. As I said, I wasn&#039;t making an argument.

Sorry I sound so churlish. It&#039;s only because I am. I know that the Bible is the word of God, so far as. . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#92 No. I&#8217;m too lazy and have too little faith that the debate will be decided on the basis of facts and too little belief that people who ask for them actually want them. As I said, I wasn&#8217;t making an argument.</p>
<p>Sorry I sound so churlish. It&#8217;s only because I am. I know that the Bible is the word of God, so far as. . .</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
<!-- WP Super Cache is installed but broken. The path to wp-cache-phase1.php in wp-content/advanced-cache.php must be fixed! -->
