After all, are not all alike unto God?

No, that happens to be the essence of the issue and the argument, on both sides. When it was expensive, dangerous and an embracement of poverty in return for freedom and opportunity, with no safety net, America was open to those who wanted to come here on those terms. Now, for the most part, people could care less about the freedom and come here to escape the danger and lack of safety net they have at home.

Each case I meet, I feel like George Bush, who admires illegal immigrants for the risks and sacrifices they make to come to the U.S. to seek a better life for themselves and their families. But as a group … kind of the reverse of “I love mankind, it is people I can’t stand” it becomes “I feel compassion for people, it is mankind I worry about.”

It is a complex issue, and one that is not going to go away.

Only to a certain degree. He will never be called GA or even Bishop, if the felony is known by HQ, and they usually do check. He is in good standing in the ward but with a few limitations.

But out in public life he has even more limitations -can’t work in law enforcement, can’t vote if he were a citizen, can’t run for office etc. Other countries have a ‘forgiveness’ view since people can overcome some convictions eg Canada has ‘deemed rehabilitated’, Australia has the ‘Spent convictions scheme’ but the USA today has a zero tolerance for drug offenses so this person would not even be granted access to the US on a visitors visa.

About your questions on immigration and the gospel – I can’t see anything in the gospel that’s related to immigration laws, only that ‘suggestion’ to stay in one’s native country by the first presidency mentioned above and repeated in another letter back in 1999 by Pt Hinckley, but that is only a recommendation and not any commandment or order.

Immigration is similar to taxation and maybe traffic codes -all things that come under that “give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar and the God what belongs to God.”

By the way I really don’t think that this HP will be successful since the judge will have to explain his (almost) pardoning of a drug offender during the rest of his career. So the odds are on the wife getting ready to live in her husbands country.

I thought that since circa 1890 the church has had a policy to encourage all members worldwide to stay in their home countries and develop stakes of zion there instead of migrating to Utah. Furthermore thru the Perpetual Education Fund a lot of these members are getting a boost up in their education which is setting them up to be civic and business leaders there and to boost economic opportunities there and to set a standard for righteousness to help pull their communities out of poverty.

Joseph Smith said – teach the people righteous principles and they can successfully govern themselves.

Because the benefits all disappear if we don’t. Open borders would result in an interesting flood.

Though the real issue is the right to vote. Assuming we allow the vote to everyone who enters, we have effectively given up our sovereignty. Does the rule of law really matter? Or should we have the drug cartel violence to the south of us in our own cities as well?

Read Shantaram ( http://www.shantaram.com/ ) and ask yourself if you want that as our country as well.

When we were asking the “huddled masses” to come here, coming to America was a sacrifice. Now that it is not, it seems things have changed all over.

As someone who works with drug offenders in the Criminal Justice system – if I saw someone had a possession charge from 5 yrs ago, 10 yrs ago, 20 yrs ago or even longer, and no other criminal charges…I would be comfortable with giving that person the benefit of the doubt. Most of the people that I work with have multiple charges and can’t seem to stay out of legal trouble. So as an immigration issue, it appears that this man is a productive member of society and doesn’t pose the same risk that a lot of US-born citizens do. (And yes, of course there are misdemeanor drug charges…depends on the type and quantity. And I haven’t seen that they hand out felony drug charges like traffic tickets, only when people are committing felonious acts:)).

Or representing them pro bono as I did in In Re Lock.

What he doesn’t explain, though, is why the poor citizens of Mexico should be made to suffer for the sins of their leaders.

Indeed, as someone noted, we are perpetuating that problem by the safety value we provide in the number of people we allow into the United States who would otherwise create pressure for change at home. I’ve been conflicted ever since that was pointed out to me.

“not willing to support our values”? which values do you mean? and how do some immigrants show their unwillingness? Generally, in some parts of Texas, the rule of law is vastly different than in other parts. It is interesting to watch, and sobering, almost like being in a different state in some areas.

I am sorely troubled. We had someone in a similar position in our ward. He would have qualified for amnesty, but the person who handled their paperwork out and out lied to them so that they lost the qualification (though the liar made several more thousand dollars out of them and a number of individuals). I wanted to have the liar excommunicated, but the dear brother feared that would stir up trouble for him. He eventually died, but being in the United States probably prolonged his life by twenty years.

Our the people working at the dry cleaner on the corner. Both had graduate degrees in chemistry, they were in the United States because of religious persecution and violence back home. Arghh. They would have qualified for asylum, as would the Haitian judge’s wife I met working as a housekeeper, she fled to the states after being raped as a political act by those on the other side.

I’m severely conflicted, as I meet individual after individual. If you listened to President Bush, on one of the few topics he has personal passion, about people just trying to care for their children and families…

if you’re only thinking about immigration from Latin America, then you’re thinking small. The bulk of Chinese still live in poverty much worse than that of Mexico and are prohibited from migrating internally to China’s booming metropolises. but only about 600 million would move to the United States next year if the barriers were relaxed. Only about 200 million from Bangladesh. Only about 350 million from India. Open borders and only 1.1 billion new residents, all apparently allowed to vote from the position of some, very few speaking English or possessed of any skills, that is what open borders would generate.

and in fact within 10-15 years Latin America’s population is likely to stabilize. This, along with economic growth and relative prosperity in the largest economies, will cause people to stay at home rather than coming north looking for work. yes, as long as there are barriers, immigration does not result in citizenship and benefits, and people can wait.

But ask yourself what %tage of Haiti, right now, would immigrate if allowed?

Mark B., I see Zion as a model that righteous nations can learn from just as “Pharaoh, being a righteous man, established his kingdom and judged his people wisely and justly all his days, seeking earnestly to imitate that order established by the fathers in the first generations, in the days of the first partriarchal reign, even in the reign of Adam” even though Pharaoh had no priesthood.

http://immigration.procon.org/viewadditionalresource.asp?resourceID=1855