\”Does anyone know the quote by a GA, at least 12 or more years old and it basically talks about society normalising the abnormal to make it the new norm\”

John Wesley (English Evangelist, founder of Methodism. 1703-1791) said:

“What one generation tolerates, the next generation will embrace.”

Experimentation does not make you gay. Music lyrics do not make you gay. Your orientation makes you gay.

Are you saying that music lyrics cannot possibly promote experimentation, and that experimentation cannot possibly influence sexual preference?

You speak of orientation as a static, fixed-in-stone-at-birth phenomenon, but the studies I’ve read blatanly contradict that position.

And, I’m curious: do you find anything offensive in song lyrics which encourage homosexual behavior for the gratification of heterosexuals?

If you count “recruitment” as being there for someone to talk about life in the gay community, or picking them up from their parents houses when they are kicked out for coing out of the closet, or going to the hospital when a friend is assaulted and presumed gay because of the company he kept… well, then maybe you have us there. We tend to try and help when we see anyone in need.

I wasn’t made. I was born. Your cannot change a straight person into a gay person if it is not within their orientation. I was not “recruited.” In fact, to say that gays recruit children would also be the same for heterosexuals who were abused by opposite gender adults. If an underage girl is abused by a straight male, then it makes is more acceptable because it’s one man and one woman? Of course not! Well, what if she “liked” it?

Do you see how ludicrous it sounds?

There are predators in both the gay and straight community. The friends I have had here in Utah have been more likely abused by a straight opposite gender predator than a gay one, regardless of the orientation the child shows in later life.

The statements that “gays recruit” is inflammatory and, frankly, offensive to me as a gay person, the same way that “all men sexually abuse their daughters” may be offensive to you. Blanket statements do nothing to help the children of abuse in thie country.

With all of that aside…

Homosexual experimentation is much more prevalent in society than you think. It’s simply kept behind closed doors. I can think of two of my female childhood friends, both LDS, who were experimenting with kissing with one another at 10 years of age in the 70′s. Both of them are straight, temple recommended members now.

Experimentation does not make you gay. Music lyrics do not make you gay. Your orientation makes you gay.

One of my inner-city clients, told me about how he was often hit on by older bisexual men. Male bisexuality seems to be not un-common among inner-city African-Americans. Several of the gritty-type TV shows (Law and Order, for instance) have dealt with “on the down-low”. I would have chalked the premise of that TV episode up to pure fiction if my client hadn’t previously told me about it.

Another point of evidence, I heard a 20-something gay man’s discovery story. He described a mentor help him discover who he was, but it sounded more like he was steered or groomed for years, and seduced. He would have fit in at #3 or #4 on Mike’s scale (in comment #83.) And I do grant the likelihood that some homosexuals at the end of the scale are born hard-wired for same-sex attraction.

I’d say that some gay men seek after #3 and #4 and “help them along” towards #5. And with the social barriers removed, then more #2 type people are going to go exploring, and be available to be “helped along.”

A close friend of mine who works with several gay men heard their stories. Several were sexually abused as children by adult men. And according to her, their main reasoning for believing they were gay was that they physically enjoyed the sex. Well of course a serial child abuser (heterosexual or homosexual) is going to want to make the abuse as physically arousing for the child in order to gain their cooperation and silence. Child abusers are generally not like violent rapists. Intense shame for having been aroused or physically enjoying the experience is what keeps many kids silent, and messes them up in adult life. And our society’s narrative seems to be “if you liked it, you must be gay.”

Societal acceptance of homosexuality won’t turn an entire future generation homosexual. But it won’t surprise me if homosexual experimentation skyrockets, and the incidence of people claiming to be homosexual at least doubles or triples.

The claim “gays don’t recruit” flies in the face of my observations going back years. Not all do. But it happens. And social acceptance of homosexuality, which is what SSM is, is going to make it all the easier to “make” homosexuals.