On graduation, I entered the graduate program at Caltech in astrophysics. I had many good experiences there and value my Caltech Ph.D. However, my experience as a graduate student there reaffirmed my wisdom in obtaining my B.S. at BYU.

I have a brother, a professor and active LDS though not at a Church school, who has passed along the criticism that the BYU student body is better than the faculty deserves. I’m not sure I believe this. It seems clear that BYU is not as research-friendly as many national universities, but my experience is that research excellence is only loosely correlated with teaching ability. At the undergraduate level, this is particularly true, and I think the best measure of BYU’s success is whether it is successful at preparing students for top-tier graduate and professional schools.

I didn’t hear any particular snark about BYU once I got to Caltech, nor much since. I *did* hear a lot of snark about Mormonism, subdued in my presence of course. I’m not sure I did much to help the Church’s reputation, since I insisted on remaining religious and a conservative, and I chose not to go into academia immediately after graduation. (Long story for another time.) Later I did seek a position at BYU, but it never materialized, and I remained within the DoE laboratory complex.

I believe there are a number of excellent faculty at BYU, who stay because of their vision of the University. I wish I was one of them. Nevertheless, the pay is notoriously low and the research funding limited, which kind of points to some obvious conclusions — some of you have already reached them — of what an increase in tuition might go towards.

I do understand some of the complaints about BYU. But speaking as someone who was the only Mormon in a student body of 1,200 in High School and one of the few Mormons in the Province, being able to come to BYU and actually be around Mormons was an overwhelming experience for me. I think people who perhaps came from the west where there were lots of Mormons don’t quite get that. I grew and developed a lot independent of my studies. Going to a different school really wasn’t the same. (And I did my Freshman year elsewhere) I would like BYU to up the standards and difficulty a tad to be more like some of the bigger named schools though. Especially now that UVSC (now UVU) can take some of the load that BYU was taking. (Ditto with BYUI and its expansion)

But the overall complaints about BYU seem pretty unfounded (IMO). Unfortunately the discussion all took place when I didn’t have time to contribute.

Interesting thoughts. I think that the per student spending is great information.

Do you have any thoughts about whether the subsidy given to students should be done by simply making the cost for LDS Church members $3,000-$4,000 as it currently is or whether the subsidy should be extended to those students with fewer financial resources through University-run financial aid and by letting those that can afford it pay the full cost?

As for how BYU’s reputation, I don’t think anyone else above has raised that idea.

But wouldn’t it be better to state as much in BYU’s mission statement?

In the beginning of the decade (around 2001-2), in my student employment at BYU, I was able to find out how much BYU spends per student (the source was someone very high at the university who would definitely know). I was told that the amount spent per student at BYU is about $20,000 – $25,000. IIRC, yearly tuition is somewhere between $3,000 – $4,000, so students are only paying for about 1/7 – 1/8 of the cost of their education.

As a BYU grad, I am grateful that my education was subsidized. I feel like I received a top-notch education, and I am now in a professional graduate school at one of the top universities in the nation. I don\’t think coming from BYU was a liability at all. My university respects BYU grads and always admits a fair number every year. Not having student debt from undergrad made it a lot easier to be able to attend here.

I think it would be a bad idea for the church to sell BYU or to do anything to encourage smart students to go elsewhere (by, for example, raising tuition). BYU does a lot to increase the LDS church\’s influence in the world. When people know that the LDS church maintains a large, respected university, it helps dispel ideas that the LDS church is some strange fringe religion. BYU provides a place for LDS-themed scholarship that would just not be produced without BYU (e.g. FARMS) and research into issues important to LDS people (for example, much research on the importance of strong families). If the church got rid of BYU or decreased the quality of the students, it would decrease BYU\’s reputation and standing, and hence BYU\’s influence. By attracting so many talented students to BYU who then go on to top grad schools and professional success, it increases the church\’s visibility–for the rest of their lives, those graduate\’s resumes and company bios will list BYU for their undergrad degree, and people will know they are church members and be able to see (hopefully) good examples church members in prominent positions.

114, with regard to BYU-H, that’s impossible, since it was founded by Pres McKay in the 1950’s.

If there’s any place you need not feel guilty, or where other people’s viewpoints should not make you feel guilty, it’s here. Congratulations on the Monson scholarship, a laudable achievement, one not to be undersold. BYU’s honors programs are top notch, the prospects for excellent grad-level education second-to-hardly-any, and the social benefits outstanding. Embrace your education and enjoy your time at BYU. I know I did.

There are reasonable critiques around here, but you will find the same at any school of any significance. I attended a great grad school after BYU and didn’t find it any more challenging or the students any more impressive. If anything, they made more poor choices that foreclosed future opportunities–despite their brilliance. There are very few relative numbers of alumni posting around here and the viewpoints, though valuable, should by no means impose guilt.

So enjoy fall semester. Really.

If there’s any place you need not feel guilty, or where other people’s viewpoints should not make you feel guilty, it’s here. Congratulations on the Monson scholarship, a laudable achievement, one not to be undersold. BYU’s honors programs are top notch, the prospects for excellent grad-level education second-to-hardly-any, and the social benefits outstanding. Embrace your education and enjoy your time at BYU. I know I did.

There are reasonable critiques around here, but you will find the same at any school of any significance. I attended a great grad school after BYU and didn’t find it any more challenging or the students any more impressive. If anything, they made more poor choices that foreclosed future opportunities–despite their brilliance. There are very few relative numbers of alumni posting around here and the viewpoints, though valuable, should by no means impose guilt.

So enjoy fall semester. Really.

“You can’t deny someone enrollment at a church owned university just because their parents wealthy.”

Probably not. But you can effectively charge them more, by making them pay full tuition and giving scholarships and loans to those less wealthy. This is the only thing that has been proposed here to rectify the financial situation. The other part of the proposal isn’t about who is wealthy, but about whether or not some students would be better off at other schools.

I do agree with you about BYU’s administration and PR.

When I was there, we couldn’t go a semester without something happening that made the school look like a bunch of kooks. The bookstore banned “Culture Club,” a whistle-blowing Cougareat employee, who reported on health code violations (cockroaches, IIRC), was fired, the printed student directory showed Karl G. Maeser without a beard, even though he wore a beard throughout his adult life, etc.

And then, after I was long off campus, the Museum of Art actually put two Rodin nude statues in the basement instead of showing them — which cost a friend of mine, a BYU graduate, a job.

Now you know why we joke that BYU’s motto is “The Campus is our World.”