Comments on: The War Chapters http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/08/the-war-chapters/ Truth will prevail Fri, 19 Mar 2010 02:56:12 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Marianne http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/08/the-war-chapters/#comment-274251 Marianne Thu, 04 Sep 2008 21:40:49 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4755#comment-274251 A few weeks ago when I taught about Nephi telling of the murder of the latest chief judge I was a bit bothered about talking to my 9-yr-old Valiants about murder and Nephi's prophetic detective work. My mother finds the war chapters violent and distressing. I don't mind them, but there are big parts of the OT that I found impossible to read (even WITH the Spirit). Horrifying. I find it interesting that anyone would see the war chapters as validation for modern warfare. If anything it should teach us that war is to be avoided until absolutely impossible. There's no Nephite preemptive doctrine of warfare. I have to say that this time through the BoM I was really struck by Aaron--Ammon gets all the PR with his arm-chopping, but Aaron's the quieter, steady older brother who gave up all the glory to be a missionary. I think he's my new hero and I'm looking forward to meeting him. I'm sure the line for his autograph will be shorter than Ammon's anyway. A few weeks ago when I taught about Nephi telling of the murder of the latest chief judge I was a bit bothered about talking to my 9-yr-old Valiants about murder and Nephi’s prophetic detective work. My mother finds the war chapters violent and distressing. I don’t mind them, but there are big parts of the OT that I found impossible to read (even WITH the Spirit). Horrifying. I find it interesting that anyone would see the war chapters as validation for modern warfare. If anything it should teach us that war is to be avoided until absolutely impossible. There’s no Nephite preemptive doctrine of warfare.

I have to say that this time through the BoM I was really struck by Aaron–Ammon gets all the PR with his arm-chopping, but Aaron’s the quieter, steady older brother who gave up all the glory to be a missionary. I think he’s my new hero and I’m looking forward to meeting him. I’m sure the line for his autograph will be shorter than Ammon’s anyway.

]]> By: keva http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/08/the-war-chapters/#comment-274196 keva Thu, 04 Sep 2008 02:03:57 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4755#comment-274196 Has anyone ever read the BOM as a literary work, i.e., remove the verse, chapter, book markings like the early editions? It seems one could better understand the flow and emotion of the writings. From this standpoint, it seems the war chronicles pain, misery, and hopelessness. What better time to bring in Christ and his visit to the Nephites. A sort of catharsis after the deep, dark times they have just been through. And I think you see this in the Bible, also. Whereas the OT is full of wars, plagues, and the harsh Law of Moses, the tone of the NT abruptly changes to hope and redemption. I don’t believe that the wars in Alma can be used to justify the current situation in Iraq (like some in my SS class have suggested). If anything, it should serve as a call to compassion to those who may be misled. With free agency there will always be war and oppression, but God will always cause something good to come from trials, no matter how severe. I believe the appearance of Christ is the sun after the storm. Has anyone ever read the BOM as a literary work, i.e., remove the verse, chapter, book markings like the early editions? It seems one could better understand the flow and emotion of the writings. From this standpoint, it seems the war chronicles pain, misery, and hopelessness. What better time to bring in Christ and his visit to the Nephites. A sort of catharsis after the deep, dark times they have just been through.

And I think you see this in the Bible, also. Whereas the OT is full of wars, plagues, and the harsh Law of Moses, the tone of the NT abruptly changes to hope and redemption.

I don’t believe that the wars in Alma can be used to justify the current situation in Iraq (like some in my SS class have suggested). If anything, it should serve as a call to compassion to those who may be misled. With free agency there will always be war and oppression, but God will always cause something good to come from trials, no matter how severe. I believe the appearance of Christ is the sun after the storm.

]]> By: James J. http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/08/the-war-chapters/#comment-274150 James J. Wed, 03 Sep 2008 13:53:39 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4755#comment-274150 Mormon said that what is contained is not even a one-onehundredth of what could have been written and we only have 1/3 whereas 2/3 is sealed. Mormon knew and more imporrtant the Lord knew what we would need in everyway. THerefore EVERY chapter, verse, and word was included for our benefit and learning. I taught the War chapters a couple weeks ago and I chose to take the approach of Amlickiah being a type of Satan and Captain Moroni being a type of Christ. I chose to look at this war and the cities being attacked and fortified as the the spiritual war here and the attack on the church, our homes, and souls. I chose to take things this direction due to Jon Bytheways point about Amalickiah resembling Satan so closely. If the Lord was trying to point this out to us then we will be able to look at the rest of the battle and see how Amlickiah fought the war and hopefully gain an understanding of how Satan will/is fighting this war for souls today (i.e. when Amlickiah convinced Lahonti to come down from the mount and then preceded to kill him by degrees is a great example). The scriptues are like an onion with many layers. I think they are meant to be understood literally, symbolically, and personally. This requires The Spirit, thinking outside the box, and a willing heart. Please dont disregard any of the scriptures for naught. Many of us would say we would love to see the sealed portion, but why would the Lord do so when we dont try to understand and take advantage of what we have. Mormon said that what is contained is not even a one-onehundredth of what could have been written and we only have 1/3 whereas 2/3 is sealed. Mormon knew and more imporrtant the Lord knew what we would need in everyway. THerefore EVERY chapter, verse, and word was included for our benefit and learning.
I taught the War chapters a couple weeks ago and I chose to take the approach of Amlickiah being a type of Satan and Captain Moroni being a type of Christ. I chose to look at this war and the cities being attacked and fortified as the the spiritual war here and the attack on the church, our homes, and souls. I chose to take things this direction due to Jon Bytheways point about Amalickiah resembling Satan so closely. If the Lord was trying to point this out to us then we will be able to look at the rest of the battle and see how Amlickiah fought the war and hopefully gain an understanding of how Satan will/is fighting this war for souls today (i.e. when Amlickiah convinced Lahonti to come down from the mount and then preceded to kill him by degrees is a great example).
The scriptues are like an onion with many layers. I think they are meant to be understood literally, symbolically, and personally. This requires The Spirit, thinking outside the box, and a willing heart.
Please dont disregard any of the scriptures for naught. Many of us would say we would love to see the sealed portion, but why would the Lord do so when we dont try to understand and take advantage of what we have.

]]> By: Thomas Parkin http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/08/the-war-chapters/#comment-274090 Thomas Parkin Tue, 02 Sep 2008 19:36:10 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4755#comment-274090 "There is no mention in the post or in the comments to reading WITH the Spirit." Welcome to the bloggernacle. ~ “There is no mention in the post or in the comments to reading WITH the Spirit.”

Welcome to the bloggernacle.

~

]]> By: Gerald Smith http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/08/the-war-chapters/#comment-274087 Gerald Smith Tue, 02 Sep 2008 18:48:56 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4755#comment-274087 Dan, on #1, I think that the 116 pages ended with the first chapter or so of Mosiah. All the books of the BoM have colophons, except for Mosiah, suggesting that a portion of the book that included its colophon was among the 116 pages. The Words of Mormon were actually added by Mormon with the small plates to the back of the gold plates, as an explanation to why they were appended. As for the war chapters, I believe they can be very useful in teaching us how to manage the wars in our own lives. Some of the trials and troubles we go through can last forever (or so they seem), and we cannot help but plod through them one foot in front of the other. Of course, many valuable lessons come from these chapters: the importance of teaching our children, the importance of defending one's home and nation, learning how to write letters with Moroni's tactful skill (oops!), and relying on God even through tough times. We live in a time when many would sell their souls for a mess of pottage. I think it is therefore enlightening to see people who would give up their lives for their personal beliefs. Would each of us be willing to give our lives like Teancum, or would we be willing to be like the kingmen and negotiate some other treaty? Dan, on #1, I think that the 116 pages ended with the first chapter or so of Mosiah. All the books of the BoM have colophons, except for Mosiah, suggesting that a portion of the book that included its colophon was among the 116 pages. The Words of Mormon were actually added by Mormon with the small plates to the back of the gold plates, as an explanation to why they were appended.

As for the war chapters, I believe they can be very useful in teaching us how to manage the wars in our own lives. Some of the trials and troubles we go through can last forever (or so they seem), and we cannot help but plod through them one foot in front of the other.

Of course, many valuable lessons come from these chapters: the importance of teaching our children, the importance of defending one’s home and nation, learning how to write letters with Moroni’s tactful skill (oops!), and relying on God even through tough times.

We live in a time when many would sell their souls for a mess of pottage. I think it is therefore enlightening to see people who would give up their lives for their personal beliefs. Would each of us be willing to give our lives like Teancum, or would we be willing to be like the kingmen and negotiate some other treaty?

]]> By: Mark N. http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/08/the-war-chapters/#comment-274086 Mark N. Tue, 02 Sep 2008 18:45:09 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4755#comment-274086 Usually, when we "liken the scriptures unto ourselves", we look at the example of the Nephites and ask ourselves in what ways we are similar to them, for good or for evil. With the war chapters, and the way things have been going for the last few years, maybe it's time we starting looking a little more closely at the Lamanites and how they went about stirring up the people to war, and likening ourselved unto them for a change. As was said above, it's not a pretty picture. Usually, when we “liken the scriptures unto ourselves”, we look at the example of the Nephites and ask ourselves in what ways we are similar to them, for good or for evil.

With the war chapters, and the way things have been going for the last few years, maybe it’s time we starting looking a little more closely at the Lamanites and how they went about stirring up the people to war, and likening ourselved unto them for a change.

As was said above, it’s not a pretty picture.

]]> By: GEORGE WELLS http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/08/the-war-chapters/#comment-274085 GEORGE WELLS Tue, 02 Sep 2008 18:28:11 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4755#comment-274085 People see meaning in reading tea leaves also. However, if a person believes in BOM unquestionably, the fact that evil rises to the top of the state makes you wonder about President Bush and his NEO-CONS. I believe it took over 900 lies to get us involved in the second Iraq war. And yet Utah has had an intense love affair with the Bush family. Bush junior did get the holy nod from Pres. Hinckley after the 9-11 thing. No wonder Hinckley got an award for patriotism the next year. People see meaning in reading tea leaves also.

However, if a person believes in BOM unquestionably, the fact that evil rises to the top of the state makes you wonder about President Bush and his NEO-CONS. I believe it took over 900 lies to get us involved in the second Iraq war. And yet Utah has had an intense love affair with the Bush family.

Bush junior did get the holy nod from Pres. Hinckley after the 9-11 thing. No wonder Hinckley got an award for patriotism the next year.

]]> By: John David Payne http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/08/the-war-chapters/#comment-274079 John David Payne Tue, 02 Sep 2008 16:44:18 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4755#comment-274079 Yeah.... Yeah….

]]> By: Kristine http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/08/the-war-chapters/#comment-274045 Kristine Tue, 02 Sep 2008 03:22:48 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4755#comment-274045 John, nobody's ever met anyone like you :) John, nobody’s ever met anyone like you :)

]]> By: Bob W. http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/08/the-war-chapters/#comment-273966 Bob W. Mon, 01 Sep 2008 22:26:01 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4755#comment-273966 While looking for spiritual substance in the war chapters don't overlook the lesson for us in Alma 47 when Lehonti fails to do that which is obviously correct and stay on the mountain, away from Amalickiah, but allows himself to be tempted, again and again, until he is beyond the point of no return. Note that his final demise is also "by degrees." While looking for spiritual substance in the war chapters don’t overlook the lesson for us in Alma 47 when Lehonti fails to do that which is obviously correct and stay on the mountain, away from Amalickiah, but allows himself to be tempted, again and again, until he is beyond the point of no return. Note that his final demise is also “by degrees.”

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