Notes from all over.

June 6, 2008 | 25 comments
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Note–due to press of business I haven’t had time to put in links for the Notes that are still accessible on the side blog.

Shaking my manicured fist at God–a bleg
5th Jun 2008 @ 7 PM

Fatherhood–I’ve heard of that
5th Jun 2008 @ 5 PM

Eliminate people with Down syndrome with 100% accuracy
5th Jun 2008 @ 10 AM (Kathryn)

Put your spouse on a short leash–literally
4th Jun 2008 @ 9 PM (Kathryn)

Update to TJE: Supporter confirms DeMille lied about credentials.
4th Jun 2008 @ 11 AM
by their fruits . . .

Marine memorial art
4th Jun 2008 @ 11 AM

Roe v. Wade substantially increased abortions of black babies
4th Jun 2008 @ 10 AM

“It is important to remember that Roe v. Wade did not mean that abortions could be performed. What Roe said was that ending a pregnancy could be carried out by medical personnel, in a medically accepted setting.”
4th Jun 2008 @ 12 AM

Women laying on hands: An image.
4th Jun 2008 @ 12 AM

Mormon women’s visionary narratives.
3rd Jun 2008 @ 11 PM

Heading for the nineties, living in the eighties.
3rd Jun 2008 @ 11 PM

“A nation of immigrants is holding another nation of immigrants in bondage, exploiting its labor while ignoring its suffering, condemning its lawlessness while sealing off a path to living lawfully.” (ht: Rebecca V.)
3rd Jun 2008 @ 11 PM

Where King Follett comes from.
3rd Jun 2008 @ 11 PM

NY Post: “Political donors report McCain complains he is under pressure from President Bush and his former political adviser Karl Rove to select former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney as his vice presidential running mate.”
2nd Jun 2008 @ 1 PM

Stuck on Mars–halfway to a roundtrip, all the way to awesome
2nd Jun 2008 @ 10 AM

Huge national abstinence campaign kicks off
1st Jun 2008 @ 11 AM

Ballard on the Mormon reality-show phenomenon: “[O]ur people like to compete, they like to excel and one of the fundamental principles of our doctrine is the ‘glory of God is intelligence’ and to learn all that you can and be the best you can be.”
1st Jun 2008 @ 1 AM

The Carnival of the Phoenix Mars Lander
30th May 2008 @ 3 PM

The Slovak King of Madagascar
30th May 2008 @ 2 PM

God in concrete human form.
30th May 2008 @ 2 PM

In the US, girls aborted for being girls
30th May 2008 @ 2 PM

Wal-Mart keeps food prices down
30th May 2008 @ 1 PM
The consumer’s best friend.

My new favorite blog

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25 Responses to Notes from all over.

  1. Jacob F on June 6, 2008 at 1:53 pm

    Re: Update to TJE: Supporter confirms DeMille lied about credentials.

    My wife’s little sister is at George Wythe and is spending the summer break in a call center selling phone services to businesses. She gets a piece of the profits and GWC gets a piece. Some kind of scholarship program. Apparently this is GWC’s way of teaching statesmanship / entrepreneurship…

  2. Stephen M (Ethesis) on June 6, 2008 at 2:02 pm

    Darn, I’d hoped to post on the FAIR/Tanners matter (come on, couldn’t people talk legal analysis instead of the rest) … though manicured concrete now comes to mind.

    I was a founding board member at FAIR, I’d like to think I’ve been mannerly here.

  3. edge on June 6, 2008 at 3:14 pm

    LOL….@ #2 I was very cordial at the FAIR/MADB discusion board, that didn’t stop them from banning me today for non-offensive posts….FAIR = unFAIR

  4. Jami on June 6, 2008 at 3:16 pm

    A few thoughts on the TJed updates:

    1.When I was first exposed to the idea that my beloved prophet Joseph was a liar who married other men’s wives, I wrote it off as hateful anti-Mormon crap. Well, as we all know, it turns out that JS did lie and marry other men’s wives. Abram lied and said Sarai was his sister. Jacob pretended he was Esau. Does it make take away their prophetic callings? No. Do I like it? No.

    So while I’m tempted to write off the “anti” TJed links, I think I’ll explore them instead. Will it invalidate the ideas for me? Probably not.

    2. I still think that calling those who use TJed an embarrassment to the LDS and to homeschoolers was really unnecessarily belittling to thousands of families, even with the disclaimer.

    3. I have not had any part in the financial side of TJed. The descriptions of the heavy marketing does not match anything I have experienced.

    GWC and TJed teach that you should find your life mission which will lead you to making money doing something that you love and that you believe will change the world. It makes sense to me that many of the people from that institution would be passionate about the educational method that has so inspired them. But how to make money at it? Write books and sell training seminars, I guess. Start a school. I can see how that could lead to some pretty serious problems.

    4. I will hold the Montessori comparison. Anyone can buy or make Montessori materials, but if you want to know how to use them you must be trained because method is a huge part of Montessori. Anyone can call their school a Montessori school, but being a certified school means that you need to pick a school of Montessori thought and have all teachers trained and certified, which involves a lot of time and money. Of course, when you’re done there is some respect, not a virulent post denigrating everything you just worked for, but up until you get to respect for the final product part I’d say there is a parallel.

  5. Adam Greenwood on June 6, 2008 at 3:48 pm

    This is not a thread about FAIR. Further such comments will be removed.

  6. Researcher on June 6, 2008 at 4:14 pm

    Oh! Is this where we get to continue the discussions of the week that got cut off in their prime?

    In that case….

    About TJE: Very interesting discussion. I really enjoyed it. I would have been happy to continue for a few days, but some of my comments were starting to get silly (I won’t say anything about anyone elses’) so it was undoubtedly a good time to wrap things up. My final thoughts on TJE:

    1. Any movement that can’t stand a little light shining in its crevices isn’t worth affiliating oneself with.

    2. If Jami and other families can make it work for their children so they get at least as good an education as a decent public school and can avoid multi-level-marketing aspects of the movement, more power to them.

    3. Life is too short to attend an unaccredited university.

    * * *

    [Edited]

    * * *

    King Follett: Back in the days before I discovered the blog aggregators (I know they are right there on the sidebar, maybe I’m just a little slow) T&S and Splendid Sun were the two blogs I had on automatic feed. Once again, J. Stapley does not fail to amaze.

    * * *

    Mormon women’s visionary narratives: Ardis’ posts were impressive when they were on T&S. They’re still impressive over at keepapitchinin.

  7. Mark IV on June 6, 2008 at 4:33 pm

    Jami, I am very happy that you have found an educational method that seems to work for your family. My impression of you is that you would do what you thought was best for your family, even if it involved much sacrifice, and I admire you for that.

    So it is with a great deal of respect for you that I make this observation: Your comparison of DeMille to Joseph Smith and Abraham makes my skin crawl. It is this sort of fervent, faux-religious enthusiasm for TJE that is very off-putting.

  8. Adam Greenwood on June 6, 2008 at 5:16 pm

    As if 250 comments of bickering weren’t already enough.

  9. Jami on June 6, 2008 at 5:16 pm

    Would you have preferred that I compared him to my favorite midwife who most decidedly got caught lying about a client? My point was not that DeMille was a religious figure, but that my reaction to the negative information about him reminded me of my reaction to Joseph’s imperfections and that I have learned from my previous experience. Under the larger category of people who lie, I categorized Joseph’s lying with Abram’s and Jacob’s. I think I’ll categorize DeMille’s with my midwife’s.

  10. Ardis Parshall on June 6, 2008 at 5:29 pm

    To be sure there is no misunderstanding, “edge” in comment 3 is not the same commenter who signs himself as “Edje”.

  11. Ardis Parshall on June 6, 2008 at 5:40 pm

    “It is important to remember that Roe v. Wade did not mean that abortions could be performed. What Roe said was that ending a pregnancy could be carried out by medical personnel, in a medically accepted setting.”

    I linked to this one, too, after some internal debate. I do not condone abortion and believe the present numbers and casualness of this abomination are themselves an abomination. I do believe, however, that in our opposition, we should remember that some women will be so desperate to avoid bearing a child or being discovered to be pregnant that they will do insanely dangerous things to themselves. The reality — whether we understand or have compassion or not — is not between abortion and no abortion, but between safe abortion and the atrocities described by the doctor in this article who remembers pre-Roe days. I don’t have an answer, but think we should at least be asking the right question.

  12. Researcher on June 6, 2008 at 5:43 pm

    The question of falsified credentials is an interesting one. We lived in San Diego during the time that Quincy Troupe became the poet laureate of California. Shortly thereafter, as I understand it and checking the story on wikipedia (yes, I know, but it’s a fast source and I’m almost out of time for blogging today), a routine background check said that he did not have a degree from a school listed in his resume. He resigned as poet laureate. After UCSD threatened to suspend him without pay, he resigned his post there. No minor repercussions for Mr Troupe. Of course since then he has co-authored The Pursuit of Happyness and used his formidable talents elsewhere, but fudging credentials is not a minor oversight.

  13. Adam Greenwood on June 6, 2008 at 5:49 pm

    reality — whether we understand or have compassion or not — is not between abortion and no abortion, but between safe abortion and the atrocities described by the doctor in this article who remembers pre-Roe days.

    Reality is very often a choice between killing the baby and letting it live, although not always.

  14. Edje on June 6, 2008 at 5:57 pm

    9: Thanks, Ardis.

  15. Mark B. on June 6, 2008 at 6:03 pm

    FAIR was actually named a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center–I saw it on the website of the American Immigration Lawyers Association.

    After my initial surprise, I read the small print–it wasn’t the Mormon guys after all. It was the morons over at the Federation for American Immigration Reform.

  16. Mark B. on June 6, 2008 at 6:13 pm

    The doctor’s piece about Roe v. Wade, which tells a sad tale, misses the point about the effects of that bit of judicial overreaching–just ask any woman who sought an abortion in New York, California or Colorado (and probably a bunch of other states) before January 1973, and got one. From a licensed physician.

    Those states (and those other possibles) had enacted liberal abortion laws before Roe v. Wade–I don’t believe that they were as broad as the court in Roe. The people in those states, through their elected representatives, had adopted laws that drew a line with which the majority felt comfortable. That line would likely have moved as new sessions of the legislatures came and went, but it would have followed, generally, the sentiment of the majority of the population.

    Now, the majority isn’t always right. But government by the people means the majority rule. And Roe v. Wade threw a spanner in the works of this democratic republic.

  17. Ardis Parshall on June 6, 2008 at 7:30 pm

    12. Yes, Adam, I know. Perhaps except in those cases where some defect in the baby’s makeup would cause it to die on its own, it’s always as you say. There are, nevertheless, women who would resort to killing or maiming themselves, who deserve some thought. Maybe not compassion, maybe not understanding, maybe not a safe abortion, if that’s the stand you want to make. I’m only advocating awareness.

  18. Nate Oman on June 6, 2008 at 9:31 pm

    It is also worth noting, if we are all into a nuanced understanding of the meaning of Roe, that prior to Roe abortions were by no means universally illegal. Regulations varried from state to state, with the general trend being toward increasinly liberal laws. It is also worth noting that were Roe over turned tomorrow, it is not as though abortion would suddenly be banned. Rather, the issue would be returend to state legislatures, which would no doubt come to a variety of different conclusions.

  19. edge on June 7, 2008 at 2:35 am

    “It is important to remember that Roe v. Wade did not mean that abortions could be performed. What Roe said was that ending a pregnancy could be carried out by medical personnel, in a medically accepted setting.”

    Perhaps you’re thinking of a different Roe v.Wade?

    “Though the State cannot override that right, it has legitimate interests in protecting both the pregnant woman’s health and the potentiality of human life, each of which interests grows and reaches a “compelling” point at various stages of the woman’s approach to term. Pp. 147-164.

    (a) For the stage prior to approximately the end of the first trimester, the ABORTION decision and its effectuation must be left to the medical judgment of the pregnant woman’s attending physician. Pp. 163, 164.

    (b) For the stage subsequent to approximately the end of the first trimester, the State, in promoting its interest in the health of the mother, may, if it chooses, regulate the abortion procedure in ways that are reasonably related to maternal health. Pp. 163, 164.

    (c) For the stage subsequent to viability the State, in promoting its interest in the potentiality of human life, may, if it chooses, regulate, and even proscribe, abortion except where necessary, in appropriate medical judgment, for the preservation of the life or health of the mother.

  20. Kaimi Wenger on June 7, 2008 at 3:26 am

    “Perhaps you’re thinking of a different Roe v.Wade?”

    Personally, I was thinking of the famous tax court decision from 1983, holding that section 152(g) of the code does not apply to current-year asset depreciation for a Limited Liability Company.

    Is there another decision with the same name? Couldn’t be.

  21. edge on June 7, 2008 at 9:03 pm

    “What Roe said was that ending a pregnancy could be carried out by medical personnel, in a medically accepted setting, thus conferring on women, finally, the full rights of first-class citizens — and freeing their doctors to treat them as such.”

    I’m just saying the author was seriously mistaken….It states clearly in the holding of Wade “the ABORTION decision and its effectuation must be left to the medical judgment of the pregnant woman’s attending physician.” The whole case centers around specific bans on Abortion in Texas.

  22. Ardis Parshall on June 7, 2008 at 9:36 pm

    Dr. Fielding (the author of the linked article): “… freeing their doctors to treat them …”

    Roe v. Wade: “… left to the medical judgment of the pregnant woman’s attending physician.”

    These two statements are somehow in conflict?? Any of the clauses in the two quoted paragraphs are in conflict?? Rather than continuing to quote the same extracts without explanation, please state your point, edge.

  23. edge on June 7, 2008 at 9:50 pm

    The wording you highlight is misleading…Of course the court said abortions could be done….but they must be done “in a medically accepted setting”.

  24. Ardis Parshall on June 7, 2008 at 10:08 pm

    Again you repeat a quotation without adding the slightest hint of an explanation.

    I don’t understand the conflict you’re seeing, edge, since the whole point of Dr. Fielding’s article was that under Roe, women could have access to “a medically accepted setting,” with professional care, rather than resorting to coat hangers and soap suds far away from medically accepted settings.

    Really, I’m not trying to be oppositional (it’s a bizarre position for me to be in here, defending in any way the aftermath of Roe v. Wade), but I honestly do not understand what you see as a conflict or dispute or incongruity between the extracts of the article (*you* chose the extracts, I didn’t) and the quotations from Roe v. Wade (again, *you* chose them — I’m not trying to mislead or distort by cherrypicking quotations since *you* chose them). If you can clarify your point, I truly would appreciate it.

    In any case, unless it’s a simple “thank you,” this will be my last comment. We’re giving Adam heartburn if he’s reading this thread, and he doesn’t deserve that on a weekend. Mondays, maybe, but not weekends.

  25. Mark B. on June 8, 2008 at 3:28 pm

    Actually, I think the medical setting has to be in a penumbra. Or somewhere downwind from an emanation.

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