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	<title>Comments on: An Unfortunate Ensign Article</title>
	<atom:link href="http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/06/an-unfortunate-ensign-article/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/06/an-unfortunate-ensign-article/</link>
	<description>Truth Will Prevail</description>
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		<title>By: mormonmagmeister</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/06/an-unfortunate-ensign-article/#comment-270392</link>
		<dc:creator>mormonmagmeister</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 23:28:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4632#comment-270392</guid>
		<description>My point exactly. I read that post a while back. While it was, indeed, written 15 days ago, it refers to a conference talk from four years ago and a conference talk from three months ago, and it makes only a passing reference (without a link) to an article in this month&#039;s Ensign. That&#039;s pretty weak.

That said, however, I want to say that your post is well argued and the discussion of this overall issue is, for the most part, productive. Well done. And by the way, I agree with Naismith&#039;s comment above (#75).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My point exactly. I read that post a while back. While it was, indeed, written 15 days ago, it refers to a conference talk from four years ago and a conference talk from three months ago, and it makes only a passing reference (without a link) to an article in this month&#8217;s Ensign. That&#8217;s pretty weak.</p>
<p>That said, however, I want to say that your post is well argued and the discussion of this overall issue is, for the most part, productive. Well done. And by the way, I agree with Naismith&#8217;s comment above (#75).</p>
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		<title>By: Julie M. Smith</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/06/an-unfortunate-ensign-article/#comment-270377</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie M. Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 17:49:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4632#comment-270377</guid>
		<description>Re #81:

Fifteen days:

http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/07/the-ballard-of-melvin-russell/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re #81:</p>
<p>Fifteen days:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/07/the-ballard-of-melvin-russell/" rel="nofollow">http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/07/the-ballard-of-melvin-russell/</a></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: mormonmagmeister</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/06/an-unfortunate-ensign-article/#comment-270375</link>
		<dc:creator>mormonmagmeister</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 16:42:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4632#comment-270375</guid>
		<description>Just a question: When was the last time someone on this or any other major Mormon blog commented on &quot;A Fortunate Ensign Article&quot;? (Crickets)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a question: When was the last time someone on this or any other major Mormon blog commented on &#8220;A Fortunate Ensign Article&#8221;? (Crickets)</p>
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		<title>By: MSG</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/06/an-unfortunate-ensign-article/#comment-269599</link>
		<dc:creator>MSG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 00:24:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4632#comment-269599</guid>
		<description>It was my understanding that when God has a &quot;peculiar&quot; people he sets them apart from everyone else with ways of living that are in direct contrast with the how the  rest of the world are doing things at the time so that those people stand out as being different.
Not drinking coffee, tea or alcohol at all today is very different from what most non-LDS people are doing. In Joseph Smith&#039;s day, tobacco use was the norm in society.  It&#039;s no
wonder the Lord would call his people to not use it the way everyone else was.
A current example (I&#039;m reaching here for one)  when Pres. HInckley called the youth of the Church not to be tatooed or pierce certain body parts and the girls not to wear more than one pair of earrings at a time--no matter what the current pop trend may be, we&#039;re supposed to stand &quot;apart&quot; in a clean way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was my understanding that when God has a &#8220;peculiar&#8221; people he sets them apart from everyone else with ways of living that are in direct contrast with the how the  rest of the world are doing things at the time so that those people stand out as being different.<br />
Not drinking coffee, tea or alcohol at all today is very different from what most non-LDS people are doing. In Joseph Smith&#8217;s day, tobacco use was the norm in society.  It&#8217;s no<br />
wonder the Lord would call his people to not use it the way everyone else was.<br />
A current example (I&#8217;m reaching here for one)  when Pres. HInckley called the youth of the Church not to be tatooed or pierce certain body parts and the girls not to wear more than one pair of earrings at a time&#8211;no matter what the current pop trend may be, we&#8217;re supposed to stand &#8220;apart&#8221; in a clean way.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Greenwood</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/06/an-unfortunate-ensign-article/#comment-268690</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Greenwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 18:42:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4632#comment-268690</guid>
		<description>I too have dug post holes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I too have dug post holes.</p>
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		<title>By: Phillip C. Smith, Ph.D.</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/06/an-unfortunate-ensign-article/#comment-268689</link>
		<dc:creator>Phillip C. Smith, Ph.D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 18:10:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4632#comment-268689</guid>
		<description>The word of wisdom was given for the weakest of the weak. Thus the prohibition of all possibly addictive products of the time, such as tobacco, alcohol and caffeine. We now know that wine is good, but is there clear cut evidence that the benefit stems from the alcohol or the grape juice, or a combination of both? 

Since alcohol can be addictive, it is likely the Church will continue to ask members to abstain. 

It is interesting that in the early 1830s, when science had no opinion on the dangers of tobacco, that Joseph Smith would come out against it. Who told him at that time that it was bad?

Agreed that we need to be careful making claims unless we are sure that our position is true and that the science in question is valid. If both are clear, perhaps position statements are in order.

Phillip C. Smith</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The word of wisdom was given for the weakest of the weak. Thus the prohibition of all possibly addictive products of the time, such as tobacco, alcohol and caffeine. We now know that wine is good, but is there clear cut evidence that the benefit stems from the alcohol or the grape juice, or a combination of both? </p>
<p>Since alcohol can be addictive, it is likely the Church will continue to ask members to abstain. </p>
<p>It is interesting that in the early 1830s, when science had no opinion on the dangers of tobacco, that Joseph Smith would come out against it. Who told him at that time that it was bad?</p>
<p>Agreed that we need to be careful making claims unless we are sure that our position is true and that the science in question is valid. If both are clear, perhaps position statements are in order.</p>
<p>Phillip C. Smith</p>
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		<title>By: Bryce Haymond</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/06/an-unfortunate-ensign-article/#comment-268638</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryce Haymond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 20:34:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4632#comment-268638</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think that using science as evidence of doctrine or principle is a bad thing, indeed it can support faith and testimony, but it certainly should not replace a witness born by the Holy Ghost.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think that using science as evidence of doctrine or principle is a bad thing, indeed it can support faith and testimony, but it certainly should not replace a witness born by the Holy Ghost.</p>
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		<title>By: Chou</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/06/an-unfortunate-ensign-article/#comment-268616</link>
		<dc:creator>Chou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:23:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4632#comment-268616</guid>
		<description>Julie,
I spent last summer studying the health benefits of coffee--a quick way to re-cement my conviction that why I choose to follow the WoW must be rooted in a belief in modern prophecy.  Thank you for your post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Julie,<br />
I spent last summer studying the health benefits of coffee&#8211;a quick way to re-cement my conviction that why I choose to follow the WoW must be rooted in a belief in modern prophecy.  Thank you for your post.</p>
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		<title>By: Naismith</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/06/an-unfortunate-ensign-article/#comment-268595</link>
		<dc:creator>Naismith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 10:58:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4632#comment-268595</guid>
		<description>&quot;Encouraging people to listen to science to confirm the gospel instead of listening to the still small voice to do it is not a good idea.&quot;

I totally agree, but I am not sure the Ensign article does that.  It merely offers one more reason to feel good about the previously made faith-based decision to live the Word of Wisdom.  

I tried in vain to find a good link about post-decision cognitive dissonance reduction to explain this concept better.  But it is a very powerful influence in modern marketing.  It&#039;s the reason that Saturn invites new owners to barbecues.  No one is going to buy a car because of the barbecue, but the barbecue helps them feel better about their decision.

This happens in politics, too.  We might decide on a candidate because of their platform, and then think, &quot;and she&#039;s a woman, too.&quot;  

When I bought a Prius a few years back, we were thrilled with all the well-designed cabin storage.  Finding each new compartment helped us feel better about the decision.  Of course we didn&#039;t buy it because of the storage, that feature just helped us feel better about the decision, which at the time Consumer Reports did not think was a wise choice (gas was less than $2.50 per gallon).  

I chose to breastfeed because of the bonding with baby.  The first time I made that decision was in the 1970s, before studies on the effects of breastfeeding.  When I chose to breastfeed our last children born in the 1990s, amid studies about scientific effects, my primary motiivation was still bonding.  But the studies helped me feel better about that choice.  

That&#039;s the role that I think this article plays.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Encouraging people to listen to science to confirm the gospel instead of listening to the still small voice to do it is not a good idea.&#8221;</p>
<p>I totally agree, but I am not sure the Ensign article does that.  It merely offers one more reason to feel good about the previously made faith-based decision to live the Word of Wisdom.  </p>
<p>I tried in vain to find a good link about post-decision cognitive dissonance reduction to explain this concept better.  But it is a very powerful influence in modern marketing.  It&#8217;s the reason that Saturn invites new owners to barbecues.  No one is going to buy a car because of the barbecue, but the barbecue helps them feel better about their decision.</p>
<p>This happens in politics, too.  We might decide on a candidate because of their platform, and then think, &#8220;and she&#8217;s a woman, too.&#8221;  </p>
<p>When I bought a Prius a few years back, we were thrilled with all the well-designed cabin storage.  Finding each new compartment helped us feel better about the decision.  Of course we didn&#8217;t buy it because of the storage, that feature just helped us feel better about the decision, which at the time Consumer Reports did not think was a wise choice (gas was less than $2.50 per gallon).  </p>
<p>I chose to breastfeed because of the bonding with baby.  The first time I made that decision was in the 1970s, before studies on the effects of breastfeeding.  When I chose to breastfeed our last children born in the 1990s, amid studies about scientific effects, my primary motiivation was still bonding.  But the studies helped me feel better about that choice.  </p>
<p>That&#8217;s the role that I think this article plays.</p>
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		<title>By: greenfrog</title>
		<link>http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/06/an-unfortunate-ensign-article/#comment-268566</link>
		<dc:creator>greenfrog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 01:34:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4632#comment-268566</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Julie.

We probably are looking at approximately the same thing from different perspectives.

From mine, your &quot;medical exception&quot; could engulf the entire rule.  If a doctor says the merlot is good for you specifically, I&#039;d guess you&#039;d be ok with drinking it.  If a doctor says that merlot is good for everybody, I&#039;d understood from your original post that you wouldn&#039;t allow that scientific/logic-based reasoning to influence your WoW interpretation.

And, fwiw, a close friend of mine was surprised when her M.D. instructed her to consume small, but not insignificant, amounts of alcohol during the middle stages of a very difficult pregnancy involving constant bed rest.  She objected on both personal WoW grounds as well as what she&#039;d learned about fetal alcohol syndrome.  Her OB told her that even with the constant bed rest, the only way she&#039;d avoid miscarriage was by consuming some sedative a couple of times a day.  Of the potential sedatives available at the time (20 years ago), small amounts of alcohol were, in that doctor&#039;s opinion, the least likely to cause significant harm to the fetus.  

As it turns out, my friend thought White Russians were the best of the alcohol lot.  Perhaps she didn&#039;t try merlot? ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Julie.</p>
<p>We probably are looking at approximately the same thing from different perspectives.</p>
<p>From mine, your &#8220;medical exception&#8221; could engulf the entire rule.  If a doctor says the merlot is good for you specifically, I&#8217;d guess you&#8217;d be ok with drinking it.  If a doctor says that merlot is good for everybody, I&#8217;d understood from your original post that you wouldn&#8217;t allow that scientific/logic-based reasoning to influence your WoW interpretation.</p>
<p>And, fwiw, a close friend of mine was surprised when her M.D. instructed her to consume small, but not insignificant, amounts of alcohol during the middle stages of a very difficult pregnancy involving constant bed rest.  She objected on both personal WoW grounds as well as what she&#8217;d learned about fetal alcohol syndrome.  Her OB told her that even with the constant bed rest, the only way she&#8217;d avoid miscarriage was by consuming some sedative a couple of times a day.  Of the potential sedatives available at the time (20 years ago), small amounts of alcohol were, in that doctor&#8217;s opinion, the least likely to cause significant harm to the fetus.  </p>
<p>As it turns out, my friend thought White Russians were the best of the alcohol lot.  Perhaps she didn&#8217;t try merlot? ;-)</p>
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