Comments on: God Himself

By: Hunter

Hunter — Tue, 20 May 2008 21:10:06 +0000

Great post. I’m surprised at your class’ surprise, though. I’ve always heard that this passage meant that when we are baptized, Jesus Christ becomes our spiritual father, as a sort of spiritual adoption.

I’ve also heard that that that’s the reason why Christians refer to each other as “brother” and “sister” – we’re fellow siblings, all part of one big happy family. (And hence, the irony of our more contemporary use of “Brother/Sister So-And-So-Last Name” as a formal, distancing title.)

By: Boise

Boise — Tue, 20 May 2008 21:09:54 +0000

By: Clean Cut

Clean Cut — Tue, 20 May 2008 12:45:49 +0000

Thanks for this conversation! Very insightful. And among other things here, I too love the “My Three Dad’s” idea. Again, thank you!

By: MartyH

MartyH — Tue, 20 May 2008 05:28:05 +0000

â€œnevertheless, not my will but thine be done,â€

This saying is a hard to align. Was there truly any conflict as in the manner you describe? For we also read:

\”Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.\”

\”During the days of Jesus\’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.\”

\”For he has not despised or disdained the suffering of the afflicted one; he has not hidden his face from him but has listened to his cry for help\”

By: TrevorM

TrevorM — Mon, 19 May 2008 18:54:51 +0000

Great post on a great subject. I have taken note of the “my 3 dads” idea for future use.

By: Kathryn Lynard Soper

Kathryn Lynard Soper — Mon, 19 May 2008 15:57:12 +0000

Good question, NYC. You’re right–that’s not good terminology on my part. I was referring to spiritual death. And you’re right, part of that death is literal separation from God (he’s there, we’re here), but there’s also the separation which comes from sin–an important thing to bring up when we talk about the fatherhood of Christ. Every mortal will be resurrected and returned to the presence of God, but only those of us who take Christ’s name upon us and live as his children will be able to remain in the fulness of that presence.

By: NYC

NYC — Mon, 19 May 2008 15:51:33 +0000

Wonderful post. Thanks for our next FHE lesson! One question:

“But these physical bodies are doomed to die, and so are these spirit bodies.”

I thought our spirit bodies lived forever. I understand as a result of sin we suffer ‘spiritual death’ because we are separated from the presence of our Heavenly Father. But, don’t our spirit bodies continue to live? or at least exist – albeit with diminished light and knowledge.

‘Spiritual death’ and ‘our spirit bodies die’ seem to say different things. Any insight?

By: Kathryn Lynard Soper

Kathryn Lynard Soper — Mon, 19 May 2008 15:14:58 +0000

Fair enough, Benjamin.

Jonathan, rip away! It’s not like I made this stuff up. ;)

Jamal, sounds like a terrific lesson. I’ll bet it’s one many of your students will remember.

Raymond, interesting points. Thanks. And thanks to you too, kenjebz.

By: Benjamin

Benjamin — Mon, 19 May 2008 15:05:48 +0000

Can I call a moratorium on referring to Gospel Doctrine as “GD?” Out in the world this acronym has a very different, very unfortunate, and very widely understood meaning. . .

By: Raymond Takashi Swenson

Raymond Takashi Swenson — Mon, 19 May 2008 07:14:54 +0000

Your exposition is precisely the one that I remember reading in a recent book by a BYU professor discussing this chapter, though I cannot recall who it was or which book it appeared in. It seemed to me to be the most elegant understanding of the passage. Perhaps it was Robert Millet.

Anyway, as you noted, I think a logical precursor to understanding Abinadi’s sermon in this way is to really understand King Benjamin’s sermon about Christ, especially Chapter 3, which contains the message of the angel about the mission of Christ. In the symposium book on Benjamin from FARMS, the remark is made that, unlike many other Book of Mormon prophets, Benjamin does NOT quote Isaiah, but I think this is incorrect. Specifically, it strikes me that the entirety of the angel’s message in Mosiah 3 is an expanded version of Isaiah 9:6, the famous verse set to music by handel: “For unto us a child is born . . .” Especially Mosiah 3:8, which contains several elements in the Isaiah passage, and with other verses, highlights the contrast between Christ’s dual natures as both God and human. Mosiah 3 is emphatic that
Christ is “the Lord God Omnipotent” AKA “the mighty God”, and as the creator of heaven and earth, is the “everlasting Father”. He is the Son of God, but he also is the child of Mary. And then perhaps the most quoted verse of Mosiah 3 is in 19 (actually part of a chiasmic unit with the last part of verse 18), which speaks of how the “natural man” is an enemy to God, until he becomes “as a child”, submitting to the will of the Father. This is not a generic child here, but rather I think Benjamin has in mind the Son of God and the child of Mary as the example of submission to the Father.

When Mosiah 3 is read in conjunction with Abinadi’s sermon, the understanding of how Christ is BOTH Father and Son comes much more easily.