Comments on: The Myth of Evolution and the Myth of the Fall http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/the-myth-of-evolution-and-the-myth-of-the-fall/ Truth Will Prevail Fri, 25 May 2012 03:45:22 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Adam Greenwood http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/the-myth-of-evolution-and-the-myth-of-the-fall/#comment-276313 Adam Greenwood Wed, 22 Oct 2008 13:53:11 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4519#comment-276313 <i>(2) Mormonism imposes *meaning* on an event which--leaving aside the problems with construing the Fall as an actual historical moment--simply does not exist in an evolutionary framework. It supposes a teleology or at least a valuation of the post-Fall state that, from an evolutionary perspective, is untenable. </i> I agree that the particular myth of evolution that says that life is meaningless is incompatible with Mormon myths. I said as much in the original post. (2) Mormonism imposes *meaning* on an event which–leaving aside the problems with construing the Fall as an actual historical moment–simply does not exist in an evolutionary framework. It supposes a teleology or at least a valuation of the post-Fall state that, from an evolutionary perspective, is untenable.

I agree that the particular myth of evolution that says that life is meaningless is incompatible with Mormon myths. I said as much in the original post.

]]> By: Adam Greenwood http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/the-myth-of-evolution-and-the-myth-of-the-fall/#comment-276312 Adam Greenwood Wed, 22 Oct 2008 13:50:22 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4519#comment-276312 <i> I don't share your confidence that Mormon beliefs about the Fall escape Millman's observation. Two points: (1) Mormon beliefs about the Fall entail a turning point between a paradisaical state (no death, abundance of resources, no effort required) and one of conflict (death, work/sweat required, conflict with God, etc.). </i> Here you're talking about a conflict between the facts of evolution and the facts of Mormon doctrines of the Fall as most Mormons accept them. I quite agree its a conflict that's knotty, but this post is talking about a conflict between the myths, not the facts. I don’t share your confidence that Mormon beliefs about the Fall escape Millman’s observation. Two points:

(1) Mormon beliefs about the Fall entail a turning point between a paradisaical state (no death, abundance of resources, no effort required) and one of conflict (death, work/sweat required, conflict with God, etc.).

Here you’re talking about a conflict between the facts of evolution and the facts of Mormon doctrines of the Fall as most Mormons accept them. I quite agree its a conflict that’s knotty, but this post is talking about a conflict between the myths, not the facts.

]]> By: ZSorenson http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/the-myth-of-evolution-and-the-myth-of-the-fall/#comment-264006 ZSorenson Thu, 22 May 2008 20:29:02 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4519#comment-264006 I think one problem with the debate are false premises. The fall was the introduction of man into a world of strife, rather than strife into the world. Or, at least, we don't know for sure. There is no such thing as doctrine, only truth. Doctrine is formulated to help understand truth with limited knowledge and/or understanding. Doctrine can be false, in that it doesn't completely represent truth. It can still be doctrine, though, because it represents the truth in the appropriate way. That is, it teaches correct principle along accurate lines, even if it gives the wrong impression concerning unrelated truths. Myth is based on doctrine. The myth of the fall, and the myth of evolution are based on doctrines. One, on an understanding of an event/principle known as the fall, the other on that of natural selection. Both principles describe truth, but neither offers the full and complete understanding thereof. This is why dogmatism is bad. Mormonism doesn't require dogmatism, it requires faith. Faith is an individuals best attempt to be true to truth. There will be misunderstandings, and mistakes, but salvation comes through faith and faith doesn't require absolute perfection. I think one problem with the debate are false premises. The fall was the introduction of man into a world of strife, rather than strife into the world. Or, at least, we don’t know for sure.

There is no such thing as doctrine, only truth. Doctrine is formulated to help understand truth with limited knowledge and/or understanding. Doctrine can be false, in that it doesn’t completely represent truth. It can still be doctrine, though, because it represents the truth in the appropriate way. That is, it teaches correct principle along accurate lines, even if it gives the wrong impression concerning unrelated truths. Myth is based on doctrine.

The myth of the fall, and the myth of evolution are based on doctrines. One, on an understanding of an event/principle known as the fall, the other on that of natural selection. Both principles describe truth, but neither offers the full and complete understanding thereof. This is why dogmatism is bad. Mormonism doesn’t require dogmatism, it requires faith. Faith is an individuals best attempt to be true to truth. There will be misunderstandings, and mistakes, but salvation comes through faith and faith doesn’t require absolute perfection.

]]> By: Ray http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/the-myth-of-evolution-and-the-myth-of-the-fall/#comment-261238 Ray Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:31:57 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4519#comment-261238 You're welcome, Agellius, for (re?)introducing you to Adam. You’re welcome, Agellius, for (re?)introducing you to Adam.

]]> By: Agellius http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/the-myth-of-evolution-and-the-myth-of-the-fall/#comment-261233 Agellius Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:04:27 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4519#comment-261233 Adam: Wow, what a coincidence! Not that we were ever close or anything. I'm Mark Johnson, and my sister is Lynda, who I think was in your brother Mark's class. Are you LDS? Were you always? I think you lived near an LDS church, didn't you? I'm an adult convert to Catholicism myself. Adam: Wow, what a coincidence! Not that we were ever close or anything. I’m Mark Johnson, and my sister is Lynda, who I think was in your brother Mark’s class.

Are you LDS? Were you always? I think you lived near an LDS church, didn’t you?

I’m an adult convert to Catholicism myself.

]]> By: Bob http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/the-myth-of-evolution-and-the-myth-of-the-fall/#comment-260760 Bob Sat, 26 Apr 2008 14:42:29 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4519#comment-260760 #41: I like this Jack, I do. I am adding it to my file of arguments. But does it have a name? #41: I like this Jack, I do. I am adding it to my file of arguments. But does it have a name?

]]> By: Jack http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/the-myth-of-evolution-and-the-myth-of-the-fall/#comment-260753 Jack Sat, 26 Apr 2008 13:14:24 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4519#comment-260753 If we look at the "myth" of the cosmos in general we see Mormonism as totally compatible with what seems to be an incredible surplus of time, space, and mass. Why such excess to bring about God's work and Glory? Well, I think the same is true of evolution. It's slow laborious process seems to fit well within the cosmological myth that we already accept. If we look at the “myth” of the cosmos in general we see Mormonism as totally compatible with what seems to be an incredible surplus of time, space, and mass. Why such excess to bring about God’s work and Glory? Well, I think the same is true of evolution. It’s slow laborious process seems to fit well within the cosmological myth that we already accept.

]]> By: Adam Greenwood http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/the-myth-of-evolution-and-the-myth-of-the-fall/#comment-260693 Adam Greenwood Sat, 26 Apr 2008 00:32:12 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4519#comment-260693 As a bona fide troll, I grew up under La Puente. As a bona fide troll, I grew up under La Puente.

]]> By: Agellius http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/the-myth-of-evolution-and-the-myth-of-the-fall/#comment-260682 Agellius Fri, 25 Apr 2008 23:20:27 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4519#comment-260682 Adam: By any chance did you grow up in La Puente? I knew someone by that name in elementary school. Adam:

By any chance did you grow up in La Puente? I knew someone by that name in elementary school.

]]> By: Chris http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2008/04/the-myth-of-evolution-and-the-myth-of-the-fall/#comment-260681 Chris Fri, 25 Apr 2008 23:19:55 +0000 http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4519#comment-260681 Ah. Catholicism has more offspring: Protestants. Got it. In any case, I was trying to play along. Obviously I did a really crappy job of it, if you thought I was mad. lol. [Ed.--or there was a crappy job reading. Your call.] Ah. Catholicism has more offspring: Protestants. Got it.

In any case, I was trying to play along. Obviously I did a really crappy job of it, if you thought I was mad. lol.

[Ed.--or there was a crappy job reading. Your call.]

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